A Small Mill: My Sieg X3 Saga

Discussion on all milling machines vertical & horizontal, including but not limited to Bridgeports, Hardinge, South Bend, Clausing, Van Norman, including imports.

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Ridgerunner
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Post by Ridgerunner »

Bolsterman,
Around here I know of people who operate an entire business out of a storage unit. If you can find one which offers power and is somewhat centrally located to the area your wife finds her "restorable" houses then that might be better than constantly moving all of your equipment. Just a suggestion.
Gary
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DICKEYBIRD
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Post by DICKEYBIRD »

Also I forgot to mention that I run the Z-axis up/down with an old Makita 7.2v cordless drill fitted with a 14mm socket applied directly to the handle nut. Works a treat after the counterweight mod.
Milton in Tennessee

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Falcon67
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Post by Falcon67 »

DICKEYBIRD wrote:Also I forgot to mention that I run the Z-axis up/down with an old Makita 7.2v cordless drill fitted with a 14mm socket applied directly to the handle nut. Works a treat after the counterweight mod.
On my G0519, I use a 3/8 male to 1/2 female socket adapter in the 19.2V drill. No counterweight required.

Join the mill/drill group on Yahoo - there are several Z axis motor schemes on there, with pics. I need a trip to the wrecking yard, I may try to score a window motor from a late 80's Ford F150 for a Z drive.

PS - here's how I lifted my 800 lb G0519 - one guy required. I would have used the engine hoist, but the legs wound not fit under the thin pallet.
Image
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tornitore45
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Post by tornitore45 »

Socket wrench on drill is fine.
I turned a groove for a 5mm polybelt on the 4.5" handweel, used a discarded elctric drill motor with reduction gear and rigged a belt tensioner with a cam operating a microswitch.
The drive pulley is about 1.25" diameter giving about an additional 4:1 reduction.
The belt is loose so ican still do fine movements by hand.
Problems:
The DC motor pulls 40A at start and trip any reasonable supply.
Windshield wiper motor have high torque but they still need reduction.

I made some measurements on the torque required to move the head, surprising thre is very little difference between rising and lowering the head. Friction must be the dominant force rather than wheight.
My unsophisticated measure indicates a need of 14inch-pound at the hand wheel. Obtained by hanging a can to a rope wound in the groove and adding ballast until it dropped a couple of turns.

I did not think of a 23mm wrench for the spindle and made a custom one, a thick sleeve with 3 protrusion to fit the spindle channels.

Clamp a chunk of lead/aluminum on a 17mm wrench to make a hammer for the drawbar, really handy to have just one tool to do the job.
Mauro Gaetano
in Austin TX
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mlucek
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Re: A Small Mill: My Sieg X3 Saga

Post by mlucek »

Bolsterman wrote:Greetings, forumites. I'm a newcomer to your forum. At the impressionable young age of 50, I'm taking a machine shop class at a local JC in Los Angeles, CA, and enjoy it very much. We're taught on big machines: Bridgeports, Trees, Laguns, Kents, and a CNC Fidal. The class was so much fun, I wanted to do some milling at home...if nothing else, I wanted to make a slotted hole when I need one.
Good to see ya got the mill ! I was at that SCHSM meeting a couple of weeks ago when you asked the guys which mill to buy :) I'm somewhat of a novice too, so didn't vote on anything :D

Mike
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Bolsterman
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Re: A Small Mill: My Sieg X3 Saga

Post by Bolsterman »

mlucek wrote:Good to see ya got the mill ! I was at that SCHSM meeting a couple of weeks ago when you asked the guys which mill to buy :) I'm somewhat of a novice too, so didn't vote on anything :D Mike
Hi Mike! Nice to 'see' you here!

What Mike's referring to, is that my professor told me to ask my questions about home mills to the local HSM club. They unanimously voted for the RF-45. What this helped me realize is, that for one's "terminal machine," nothing beats size. So it made me rethink my situation, and I saw the X3 as a step along the way, rather than a final destination. Honestly, my dream machine wouldn't be an RF-45 either. The machine that's catching my attention at the machine shop lab is a lonely Millrite in the corner that nobody ever uses. Looks to be about a half ton. Maybe someday. For the time being I think the X3 will keep me plenty busy. Haven't had a chance to disassemble it yet; travel coming up. More when I get back.
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mcoffey
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Post by mcoffey »

Hello all, new to the forum, first post.

I've read this thread with great interest because, I'm looking to get into machining for he first time, and need a Milling Machine also.

I'm leaning towards the SX-3 clone from Grizzly, which I believe is model G0619. Is there a Grizzly model for the RF-45 type mill. If not, can you point me to a model or website where I can see the RF-45?

Thanks so much for taking the time to create this thread. I've found it very valuable in helping me to decide which machine to get.

andyc
Last edited by mcoffey on Wed Nov 25, 2009 12:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Bolsterman
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Post by Bolsterman »

You're on the right track. However the Griz machines (G0463 & G0619) are not clones, they are simply Siegs with the Griz name on them (rebranded). Lots of reports say the Griz quality control is worth whatever extra you might pay for a Sieg machine from them. And Griz does sell a Rong-Fu 45 clone (I don't think it's an actual Rong-Fu) the G0519. Beware, it's sold with a 220v 3-phase motor. (Other RF-45 clones are not necessarily sold with 220 3-phase. Lathemaster sells what seems to be a highly regarded RF-45 clone, the ZAY7045FG...but I'm just repeating what I've read, do your own due diligence...)

Regarding my thread, it will continue; it's the end of the semester and I have to get some homework done before I can return to cleaning and tuning my G0463.
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Bolsterman
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Post by Bolsterman »

Dec 11. The mill seems to have arrived in decent condition. A few blemishes here and there.

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No problems with the R8 collets I ordered from Grizzly. They slipped right in. I guess the often-documented problem of the protruding pin in the taper has been resolved. I notice my mill was made 1/09.

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Bolsterman
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Post by Bolsterman »

I’ve been following the excellent X3 Preparation Guide published by arceurotrade.uk.com. (http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/projects/ ... 0Guide.pdf). Since they’ve done an excellent job of detailing the disassembly of the X3, I’ll simply add my notes and comments to the numbering in their guide:

4. 17mm and 23mm.
10. This was a little difficult. The screw holding the lead was so tight that loosening it torqued the board…I was afraid I’d damage the board but the screw finally popped loose before causing further damage. After #10 there is an omitted step, and that’s to remove the wiring harness from the column so the motor can be taken off as a separate unit.

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11. 4mm.
12: N/A for imports to the USA.
13: 4mm again.
15: 3mm.
18: 4mm.
19: Move belt up concurrently with gear.
23: Use ball pein, not a deadblow to remove this pin; it needs the “shock” to move. One end of the pin is thicker; best to mark it before removing.
24: The bearings will fall out at this point.
25: 5mm
27: Bearings will fall out both sides.
29: Heavier than expected; support it well when removing.

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33: 14mm
34: 5mm
42: This is where I stopped disassembly. I gauged it sufficient for cleaning away the red goo I was finding everywhere. However Arc Euro continues the disassembly down to the spindle bearings.
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Bolsterman
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Post by Bolsterman »

I had discussions with MP, the professor in charge of keeping the shop’s machines in tune. I asked him his advice regarding further disassembly. He spun the spindle bearings several times, rocked it back and forth, and advised me that I should use the machine until it showed some need of bearing replacement, since the spindle seemed smooth and tight.

So at this point I did a little light stoning of the gibs and ways (and I do mean light, maybe a dozen or two strokes with a very fine stone; the ways in particular looked to be in good shape). So I started assembly at Arc Euro’s Prep Guide photo #141. Where Arc Euro called for grease on the ways, I used Vactra #2. For areas I just needed rust protection, I used Chevron 30-weight due to its documented rust-fighting capabilities. For grease, I used Mobile One Synthetic…ironic, since it’s the same red color as all the spooge I had been cleaning off.

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Arc Euro’s guide doesn’t address adjustment of the split nuts under the ways. They were dead loose from the factory, giving a backlash of .010. After putting the saddle in place I tightened them by hand (about as tight as you can go with your thumb on an L-shaped hex key without pain to the thumb) and was able to get backlash down to .005.

Another departure I took from Arc Euro’s guide is, they have you tightening the gibs before putting in the leadscrews. I put in the leadscrews and then tightened the gibs; made more sense to me. Tightened the gibs one at a time, backing off a bit after they started to bind.

152: Don’t forget to reinstall the key
154: I took the springs out and sanded them. Very low quality springs, look to be bits of packing strap cut and bent into place.
155: You need to tighten the wheel before adjusting backlash and/or gibs.
171: This pin fits one way only.

Note that adjusting the split nut for the X axis is more difficult than for Y because access is so limited. I did it with needle nose pliers and a hex key. Was once again able to get backlash reduced to .005; I’m sure I could have gone farther but stopped at what I felt was a decent hand tight.

174: The X-axis scale doesn’t even come close to being on center?
193: N/A for imports to USA.
196: Fit the Motor Driven Pulley here.
205: Colors aren’t brown/blue, they’re black/white.
206: The boss for ground, is shown as left/right reversed of the way my machine was wired. NOTE: There’s a “forward” slot and a “rearward” slot; it’s the forward slot you want to use. The rearward slot won’t tighten down.
207: Noticed one of my cover screws stripped.

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During the break-in procedure, I noticed the drawbar top is cut a little eccentric. And in the low range there is mild vibration around 700 rpm. Haven’t looked into either of these issues yet.

Next, tramming...
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Bolsterman
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Post by Bolsterman »

Tram time! First task was to check the flatness of the table. With a test dial indicator attached to a “grasshopper leg” in a collet, I ran the indicator over the table about a dozen times, in different locations. What I discovered was a table within .002-.003 overall. Either end was slightly higher than the middle by about .0005-.001, and running in a diagonal across the right side of the table was a -.001 trough about an inch wide. You can see the diagonal in the photo marked with asterisks at the low points. I’m at a loss to explain why there’s a small diagonal dip in the table.

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I checked out a cylinder square from the tool crib to measure the tram of the Z axis. The cylinder square was 6” in height but because of the design of my back plunge indicator I was only able to make use of about 5” of it. What I found was not good…the Z axis was out of tram .008 for 5 inches! The column was leaning to the right. Given that the spindle-to-table distance is about 15 inches, that would mean an inaccuracy of about .024 overall. And the manufacturers had pinned this inaccuracy into the base of the column! Unacceptable!

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Last edited by Bolsterman on Tue Jan 05, 2010 11:58 am, edited 3 times in total.
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