A Small Mill: My Sieg X3 Saga

Discussion on all milling machines vertical & horizontal, including but not limited to Bridgeports, Hardinge, South Bend, Clausing, Van Norman, including imports.

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Bolsterman
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Post by Bolsterman »

First task was to pull the pins at the base of the column (between the bolts holding the column in place). They are threaded M4 x 25. Cribmeister M.P. gave me an interesting device for pulling the pins…a block of steel with an oversized hole, and a hex head screw with a stack of washers. The screw simply pulled the pins up through the oversized hole. (The photo below shows me pulling one of the two pins on the head, not the base, but the operation is the same.)

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I found a thin strip of shim at .015 got me close to plumb on the Z axis. (In this photo the pin is still in place...I pulled it shortly thereafter.)

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Last edited by Bolsterman on Sun Dec 13, 2009 12:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Bolsterman »

But the instructors were not pleased with such a small strip used for a shim. They told me I needed shim stock supporting the whole area under the right side bolts, and MP handed me this nifty hole punch to make clean holes to clear the bolts at the base of the column. Once I got my shim into the larger area under the right side of the column, I discovered .015 was way too much. I cut a second shim at .010, and finally a third at .007. Funny, that with all the fancy indicators, here I am using scissors to cut pieces of brass shim to get my mill in tram. It seems so low-tech.

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Third time (using the .007 shim) was a charm.

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Post by Bolsterman »

The column is now true in left/right orientation by under .001 in 5”. Fore to aft, it’s within .002, as before. [Edit: Oops, that .002 measurement was with the Z-axis gib somewhat loose, and without the headstock lock tightened down. Lock it, and the fore/aft measurement tightens up to within .0005 over 5".]

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I have to get this mill finished because it’s end of the semester and it has to come home. And I still have the spindle to contend with. Now that the column is (more or less) true, the spindle projects at an angle to the right! It is off .006 over its 3.4” range…not good. So my next task is to rotate the head to get it plumb. I’ve already pulled the pins in preparation. That’s all for now.
Last edited by Bolsterman on Tue Dec 15, 2009 6:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Bolsterman »

The next challenge is to get the quill running plumb. First, tighten the Z-axis gib using the oversized standard slotted screw at the top right rear of the head. This screw moves a tapered gib, and the further you screw it down, the tighter the Z-gib gets. Too tight and you’ll have difficulty raising and lowering the head. So run the head up and down while tightening, stop tightening when you feel it binding, and back off a little from there. This, along with tightening the headstock lock for measurement, made the fore/aft (nodding) movement of the head disappear to a tiny .0005 over 5” of measurement (previously I had measured it at .002).

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Now about that quill…recall it’s .006 off in its left/right (tilting) orientation over its 3.4” travel. And recall I’ve already pulled the two locating pins in preparation. The cylindrical square and an indicator chucked into a collet told me the head needed to rotate slightly clockwise to make things right. I tried my darndest to loosen the four 8mm hex cap screws that hold the head, without removing the motor, and all I got was one buggered hex cap screw for my efforts. If I’d had a ball-end socket hex I might have been able to make it happen, but with straight metric hex sockets, I eventually had to remove the motor to access that lower left screw.

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With three of the four head screws loose, and one a little tighter to act as a pivot, I tapped gently on the head with a deadblow to twist the head a little clockwise. Gentle didn’t do the trick; I had to give the head a couple of sharp raps before it moved. After several tries, pulling down the quill feed lever showed me I was within .001 in the left/right (tilting) orientation. Then I tightened those four big cap screws down.

The fore/aft (nodding) orientation of the quill looked to be .004 at first, but then I realized I hadn’t locked the head. Locked, the quill descended within .0015 in the fore/aft (nodding) orientation. I’ll have to remember to lock the head before drilling, when I want precise holes. Or should I say, relatively precise holes, at least with the supplied chuck. I measured runout on the chuck that came with the machine, using 3/8" drill rod. About 4" down on the drill rod I measured .002 runout.

Next step is to button this all back up, get a stand made, and move it to my shop.
Last edited by Bolsterman on Wed Dec 16, 2009 1:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Bolsterman »

Ah, I almost forgot to post a list of needed tools...
=====================
Tools Needed for X3 Mill Preparation
=====================
Necessary:
17 mm combo wrench (for base bolts & draw bar)
23 mm 12 point box-end wrench (to hold spindle)
8mm hex socket, preferably ball end
Allen Hex wrenches, Metric
Brush
Circlip Pliers
Cylindrical Square
Drift punch/pins
Extension for ratchet or hinge handle
Grease (I used Mobile synthetic)
Hammer - Dead Blow
Hammer – Ball Pien
Indicators
Kerosene, Mineral Spirits, etc…
Masking Tape
Needle Nose Pliers
Nippers
Oil & Oiler (I used Vactra #2)
Permanent Markers (to mark for reassembly)
Pliers
Rags, lots of them.
Ratchet or Hinge handle
Screwdrivers (including small electrical)
Shim stock & scissors
Stone, fine (for polishing ways)
Wire and or string
Wrenches (metric)
Zip ties

Optional:
Blind bearing puller (see Arc Euro Guide)
Blocks of plywood to set mill on (remember wheel crank hangs down)
Drill (Cordless, saves time extracting lead screws)
Electrical Tape
Hefty wooden dowel 12" (see Arc Euro Guide)
Plywood Prop (see Arc Euro Guide)
Puller
Sandpaper & Glass (if needed, to smooth gibs)
Smooth Jaw pliers
Spanner for C-nut
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Post by Bolsterman »

End of the semester, school is closing for the winter break, and the small mill has to come home.

A detour in the process was getting a decent tool table welded up. A friend I met in class was an aircraft-certified welder, and he fabricated me a hefty (150 lbs?) stand under which a bottom toolchest can just fit. That detour added another $280 to the price of the project.

Our professor EH was extremely helpful throughout the process, and went above and beyond the call of duty to help me get the mill loaded. However, with just two of us working (instead of a team of eight during the unloading) this move required a little more thought. Fortunately the mill was on a hefty rolling cart, and shop had a HF cherry picker. We rolled the mill out to my pickup.

I used two 6-foot web straps purchased from Enco with multi-thousand pound ratings each. One was looped choker-style beneath and around the front base of the mill, coming up in front of the table, with the vertical portion of the strap pulling along the right front side of the head. The second was looped choker-style beneath and around the rear base of the mill, coming up behind the table (but in front of the column), with the vertical portion of the strap pulling along the left rear side of the head…hope that makes sense. We were careful to keep the straps away from the quill. Then, to keep the vertical straps where we wanted them, we wrapped a web strap horizontally around, above the table. The two vertical straps were joined with a hefty screw-type link. The cherry picker simply snatched the mill up, off the cart, and we maneuvered it into the pickup bed…but not without one mishap.

As we were rolling the cherry picker’s feet underneath the tailgate, we lost track of where the front wheels of the picker were, and rolled them off the curb. That set the mill to swinging, and the side of my pickup bed arrested its movement. And that entailed a paint swap. So the inside of my bed now has a Grizzly-green dent.

After depositing the mill in the bed, the cherry picker got folded up and put in too. Then I headed toward home and arrived just as it started to rain.

Image
Last edited by Bolsterman on Wed Dec 23, 2009 1:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Bolsterman »

I backed into my garage, but couldn’t unload until I created a top for my new tool stand. Two slabs of 3/4” ply and a formica top later, I hoisted the mill out, with the help of my wife. Below, you can see her eyeing the process with some skepticism. I never did do a good job of explaining to her why we need a mill, and her reception of it has been considerably chillier compared to her good-natured acceptance of my other tools. As you can imagine, I am looking for the first opportunity I can find to craft just the thing she needs (or wants). I just hope she wants something aluminum.

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So now the mill sits on its new stand, waiting patiently for Christmas to pass until I can actually plug it in and use it. No time before that.

Let me just take a moment to observe: moving 365 lbs is a major hurdle if you don’t have the equipment for it. There were several mishaps and dangerous moments I experienced with the bit of moving I’ve chronicled in this thread. I see guys talk about moving one-ton bridgeports like it’s no big deal, and if you have forklifts, semi trailers, and cherry pickers, then OK. But for the average homeowner such as myself…dang, 365 lbs is intimidating, and has occasioned more than a little inconvenience, risk, and mishap. So I’m thankful that a mill that weighs less than a quarter ton is actually available. I know it will have its limitations but moving even a small mill is formidable, in my humble opinion. Given that I move every couple of years, “small is good.” Depending on how you define "small," of course.
Last edited by Bolsterman on Wed Dec 23, 2009 3:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Moving the mill

Post by Gunbuilder »

Bolsterman,
Now you are a rigger! Well not really, just remember SAFETY, SAFETY, SAFETY. It looks like you are going the right direction on moving your mill. I didn't hear about anything broken. Yes, the part about not watching the curb and the transfer of paint, it can happen to anyone. Just hope it doesn't happen to you again, learn from the small mistakes so you don't have big ones.

You learned a lot from 375#, next move will be easier. Just wait until you have a mutli-ton move.

Thanks,
Paul
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Post by tailshaft56 »

The best way IMHO to load a mill like that is to do the pick in a spot that you can back up under the mill. That keeps the mill from swaying. Remember to stay clear of the load as a broken piece of equipment is far less painfull than a trip to the ER or morgue.
Dennis


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Post by Bolsterman »

Yes, Tailshaft, that's a far better method, on reflection.

Next job is to get the mill bolted down. Sounds easy…drill a couple holes, one of which goes through the front supporting beam of the table and…broke a pilot bit deep in the metal, under the plywood! I puzzled on how to extract the broken bit for awhile…only way I could figure was to lift the mill table and mill a few inches to retrieve the broken bit. With untrustworthy, skinny rafters, I couldn’t lift up, using them. The cherry picker had been returned to the school. All that was left was a car jack. So it got called into action. It did the trick: lifted the mill and table a few inches, bit extracted, hole re-drilled, mill bolted down. I then restarted the amazingly long, mandated break-in procedure (10 minutes run time at 12 different settings!) and went to work on the rolling cabinet that fits beneath the mill. All that needed was a “simple” modification to turn the rear fixed wheels 90 degrees in orientation so the unit will roll in and out of its bay from front to back (as opposed to rolling side to side). That little project required…milling! Yep, there were four holes that had to be made into slots in order to turn the orientation of those two rear wheels. So after all this time, the Sieg X3 tasted its first metal…the supporting brackets from the base of its own tool cabinet. It did a fine job, but I (re)learned that it’s really important to tighten down the gibs on the X3, particularly in the Z axis. I’ve gotten into some sloppy habits using the school’s Bridgeports; they’re so big and heavy that small jobs don’t require gib locking. Looks to me that ANY cut on the Sieg will need as much locking as possible. Oops...in this photo you'll notice I forgot to lock the quill! D'oh!

Image
Last edited by Bolsterman on Mon Dec 28, 2009 3:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Bolsterman »

I’ve seen small mills villified in forums for a variety of reasons with which we're all familiar, and one is “You have to set the mill on something anyway so you may as well have a mill with a knee that goes to the floor.” Well that’s fine for you guys with room to spare, but here in Los Angeles where the price per square foot is still ridiculous, being able to put most your tooling directly beneath the mill is a big benefit.

Here the Sieg X3 reigns over the other tools in “my half of the garage.” (The other half is devoted to the wife’s car.) Don’t feel sorry for me; most of these tools are on wheels and can be relocated as needed. Notice there is still a small lathe-shaped space unoccupied, to the right of the (just barely visible) drill press…now I wonder what I can put there?

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Last edited by Bolsterman on Mon Dec 28, 2009 3:44 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by Bolsterman »

A question to the forum…I did a quickie check of my tram and I think I see that part of my “column leaning right” problem has returned to a lesser degree. I don’t have a cylindrical square to check, anymore; I just used an Enco-grade 4” angle, don’t know if I can trust it or not. Assuming I find a better solution for testing tram (and pitch in if I am overlooking a good method…currently I’m running a dial test indicator up and down my 4” angle plate using the z axis lead screw…maybe I should buy a 2-4-6 block instead?), and assuming my column is still leaning, I am suspicious my problem may be in “gunk from the factory” between the column and the table it’s bolted to. I read elsewhere about an owner of a Chinese machine who said that the mating area between his column and table was filled with crud, paint, swarf, etc., and he needed to clean it out to get a good tram that would hold. So if I am able to buttress my skinny rafters to the point they can comfortably hold a couple hundred pounds, do you think I can lift the column and head (firgure 200 lbs?) with a come-a-long I already own, and clean out the joint area? Or would I have to invest in a block and tackle? And would it be OK to lift the column/head unit by wrapping a lifting strap choker-style around the head where it meets the column? Or would that do something horrid to the Z-axis gib or other vital machine part?
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