A Small Mill: My Sieg X3 Saga

Discussion on all milling machines vertical & horizontal, including but not limited to Bridgeports, Hardinge, South Bend, Clausing, Van Norman, including imports.

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Bolsterman
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Post by Bolsterman »

First project from the new X3, a bracket to hold my computer screen...

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And here it is, in use...

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Last edited by Bolsterman on Mon Mar 29, 2010 4:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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MarcoBernardini
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Post by MarcoBernardini »

gunboatbay wrote:The second choice, they will 'prepare' the mill. Tear it down completely, clean all parts, inspect and correct any deficiencies, lubricate and adjust it correctly, then pack it back up and ship it to you. This adds 250 UK pounds to the price (about 500 of your dollars).
A lot of useful infos in this thread... but this one is the best!
If I'll buy an X3 I'd be very glad to pay 250 GBP (~275 euro) for all the preparation work... it seems to me even underpaid, after looking at the procedure.
I don't know why those mills can't be shipped in separate pieces, so half the work is done ;)
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Bolsterman
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Post by Bolsterman »

I read the Arc Euro prep guide carefully (used it as a guide for working on my own mill), and if that's the same procedure as the prep service they offer, I did not see that tramming, shimming, adjustment of backlash, stoning of ways, tightening gibs, etc, was included. To me it looked more like a cleaning and relubrication service; ie, it falls short of what you actually need to do to get a nice useable X3 (IMO).

FYI, the newer X3s from Grizzly may not come buried in the red goo that the old ones did; cleanup of my mid-09 mill was much easier than the early-09 mill I obtained. I say "may" because I supposed it could be random variation, too.
Last edited by Bolsterman on Mon Mar 08, 2010 4:45 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by cedge »

Bolsterman
I've watched you sweat over the setup of this machine since you first bought it. I'd begun to wonder when you'd finally get around to attacking metal in anger...(grin). Now that you've tortured a bit of work from the machine, what are your initial "impressions"?

I've been running my Sx3 for about 18 months and for my part, you'd probably have to pry it from my cold dead hands to take it.....LOL.

Nice looking piece of work, BTW.

Steve
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Bolsterman
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Post by Bolsterman »

Yes, I posted in haste (mostly so I could show mom my work without dragging my computer with me!) and I owe you some impressions.

1) I must say it really beats the heck out of not having a mill at all. I think I got some bad advice from people (not from this board, mind you) who made it sound like the choice was either 1-ton of American arn or nothing. It's a huge relief to be able to step into the garage and cut some metal to fix a problem.

2) Tolerances are better than I expected. As a rookie machinist, I was holding around .003 or .002 without trying too hard, and the fit of the bracket onto my desk's bridge is about as tight as you can get it, without forcing anything.

3) The first machine was a real struggle and I never did get it plumb enough that I felt I could face material without ridges. But the second machine was easy. It took .002 shim on the right lower column to get the column L/R within .001 over 5". I don't have the 'nod' within my desired tolerance yet but I think it's currently .003 or so over 5", good enough to proceed. So my big lesson-learned here was to measure the machine when it shows up at your door, and if it's not close, just send it back that evening. If it's too far out, it will take too much monkeying. A different machine can make everything easy, and that's why you buy from Grizzly. They accept a return without grousing, and make it right. I just wish I'd returned the first one sooner. It was clearly a "Friday afternoon" machine.

4) Power is adequate. Mind you I am comparing to Bridgeports and Kents in the classroom. Putting a 3/8 drill through 2" of aluminum with a marginally sharp bit had the machine bogging down and faulting before I figured out I was using the wrong drilling lubricant. Once I got a heavier oil down the hole, all was well. [EDIT: My machinery prof said the problem was likely my using a high helix bit.]

5) Cutting first metal on this machine I was taking pretty light cuts all around, in the vicinity of .010-.040 depending on how much metal was contacting the cutter. I wasn't pushing it, so I don't really know what the machine can take yet. I do think this machine will force me into good habits of cutting the waste before starting machinework. I've been told it's not a machine for hogging, and I didn't try. Those troughs in my work were mostly cut out with a jigsaw before I ever got to the machining part. I did some of the initial machining to size of this part with the school's Bridgeports, and my cuts at home were much smoother and flatter than the school's Bridgeports with their shoddy trams and partially dull bits. So I was surprised to see my results at home were better than what I could get at school using "real" mills.

6) No unpleasant surprises. Takes a little extra thought to "double" all measurements in Z axis (due to the .0005 increment, instead of the .001) but I was pleased I didn't make a single error of settings during the making of this part. Nothing got cut shorter than intended!

7) I very quickly adopted the necessary practice of using two magnets on & below table to register where 0 was. On the column I magneted a scale in place, with a pointer extending from the head. Once I put the magnets back in register, I was usually within .020 or so of where true 0-0-0 was. I'm not sure I'm being clear, I'll photograph what I mean. [EDIT see my post below.] Basically I'm experimenting with ways of making resettable scales/ rulers on all axes so I can tell "where I am" in space, when I lose track of the number of times I've turned handles. (DRO would be a welcome addition, but a magnetic ruler you can slide about is a poor-man's way of accomplishing much the same thing...it'll get you to 1/10 of an inch, then you use the scale on the dial to get it exact.)

If anybody has any great ideas on how to make manual scales you can easily reset so you can find yourself in space, I'd like to see 'em.
Last edited by Bolsterman on Wed Mar 31, 2010 1:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by Harold_V »

Bolsterman wrote:If anybody has any great ideas on how to make manual scales you can easily reset so you can find yourself in space, I'd like to see 'em.
I salute you for the idea. That, in a way, is how I've always operated a vertical drop spindle mill. However, in place of the scale, I simply make wax pencil markings on the machine. If you make a mark for your reference point, which will usually be 0 on the dial, you can then mark each location with a line, including the dial setting. If you check the initial location with a scale to insure you haven't miscounted turns, it's a very fast and easy system to use. When you're finished with the project, the lines wipe off and you're ready for the next part or operation.

I do not suggest this be used in place of a moveable scale idea, which is very good. It will serve you well until such time that you have the scale system developed and installed, however.

Glad to see the mill is turning out well.

Harold
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Post by Bill_Cook »

Bolsterman wrote:If anybody has any great ideas on how to make manual scales you can easily reset so you can find yourself in space, I'd like to see 'em.
My 40 to 1 dividing head came with only one dividing plate - #1 of 3 - with 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, and 20 hole circles.

With Marv's BOLTCIRC program I came up with the X & Y coordinants for holes in the other two plates to four decimal places.

On the #2 plate (21, 23, 27, 29, 31, & 33 hole circles) I also added a 127
hole circle for making metric transposing gears for lathes. With the three mounting holes it came out to 294 holes.

To keep from going completely astray AutoCAD was used to make and print a graph paper with a .200 x.200 grid (one turn of the X & Y dials). It also had different color lines at 1 x 1 inch spacing. A pointer was fastened to the side of the mill head with a magnet and the graph was put on the table lined up with the zeroed dials. The job ended up with only one slightly elongated hole.

If I get around to making the #3 plate (37, 39, 41, 43, 47, 49 hole circles) I'll also print the holes and/or center marks on the graph.

BC
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Doin' fine without a DRO
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Bolsterman
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Poor Man's DRO

Post by Bolsterman »

OK, here's my implementation of the "poor man's DRO". It's a small scale, designed in Illustrator, printed out on a laser printer, and glued to a strip of 1" flexible magnet. (I picked up a roll of 1" flex magnet at my local OSH; it even came with adhesive on one side!) It's graduated in 1/10 inch, which will get you within range, so you can make final adjustments with the graduated dial on the hand wheel to .001 or better. To reset your PMDRO, just scootch the magnet strip (or adjust the pointer, which sits on a magnet).

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Last edited by Bolsterman on Mon Mar 29, 2010 4:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by knudsen »

gREAT PIX, Bolsterman. Dambid caps lock. I'll read up on your adventures more when I get some down time. I guess your avitar is your pic after unloading that at the school :D :lol: 8)
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Post by Bolsterman »

Thanks.

Whilst I usually walk around with a dumb look on my face ("Dumber than a bag of hammers," to be precise), after unloading the mill at the school I was lookin' dumb AND tired AND a little skeered!

The Avatar is Delmer O'Donnell from the movie "O Brother Where Art Thou." If'n you ain't seen that movie yet, you arter.
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Post by abarton »

Bolsterman wrote:4) Power is adequate. Mind you I am comparing to Bridgeports and Kents in the classroom. Putting a 3/8 drill through 2" of aluminum with a marginally sharp bit had the machine bogging down and faulting before I figured out I was using the wrong drilling lubricant. Once I got a heavier oil down the hole, all was well.
Ooh! This rookie has been using WD-40 when drilling aluminum, but I wouldn't describe it as heavy. Have I been using the wrong lubricant? What is properly heavy?
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Bolsterman
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Post by Bolsterman »

I was using WD-40 for the first two holes, and had problems with the bit bogging down and faulting the machine, even when reapplying the oil liberally. So I switched to a heavier cutting oil, the Oatey dark thread-cutting oil that you can get at HD (which I use as a lubricant when machining mild steel) and my problems vanished on the last 4 holes.

My machinery prof says that oils with sulphur can stain aluminum, which is why they're generally not used.

I still prefer WD-40 for surface machining of aluminum, however.

http://www.oatey.com/Plumber/Shared/Pro ... g+Oil.html
Last edited by Bolsterman on Mon Mar 29, 2010 4:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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