Need Instructions for Lagun FTV2 Mill Head Rebuild

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ken572
Posts: 2600
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2010 8:11 pm
Location: Mesa, Arizona. 85201-1517

Re: Need Instructions for Lagun FTV2 Mill Head Rebuild

Post by ken572 »

One must remember.
The best learning experiences come
from working with the older Masters.
Ken.
ab4td
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2010 3:55 pm

Re: Need Instructions for Lagun FTV2 Mill Head Rebuild

Post by ab4td »

Ken, Thanks for the pointer to the manual.
Lubriplate Grease came and this made no difference. Dissasembly is postponed till Wednesday morning, I have someone lined up to help. A second set of eyes and pair of hands should make this go smoother. Everything is set to go.

I dont know why but H&K sent two tubes of Mobile Premium Grease in the kit. I not sure where they expect me to put that much grease.
H&K sent the instructions for a Bridgeport as an example, but that didnt explain where that much grease will go.

Jim
ab4td
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2010 3:55 pm

Re: Need Instructions for Lagun FTV2 Mill Head Rebuild

Post by ab4td »

I have 7 bearings in this kit.

1 NTN 6012ZZC3/EN 6012ZZC3/L62 Sealed Shielded Bearing 60x95x18 (mm) Used on the spindle above the upper sheave (Ref 7058 in the Lagun Manual

1 SKF 6009-Z/C3 Sealed Shielded Bearing 45x75x16 Used on the spindle at the bottom of the variable speed head.
This is the lowest of the bearings on the spindle inside the variable speed head. Ref 7083 in the Lagun Manual

2 NTN 6008 ZZC3/2A Sealed Shielded Bearing 40x68x15 - Used on the spindle but not in the upper head - ? Ref 7066 in
the Lagun manual.

1 SKF 6007 2ZJEM Sealed Shielded Bearing 35x62x14 - Used under the spindle cover (Ref 7073 in the Lagun Manual)
2 NTN 6004ZZC3/L627 Sealed Bearing Bearing 20x42x12 - Used on the Reduction Gear shaft (Ref 7059 in the Lagun Manual)

There are 4 8mmx41mm nylon/plastic keys ( These have a 4mm radius on each end)
There are two cylindrical bushings 40mm ID, 44mm OD (2mm walls), 50mm long Glacier sleeves (7037 in the Lagun Manual)
There is a very thin slit along the long axis of the busing.
There are two holes for two keys on the centered on the long axis, running lengthwise along the axis, centered, and 90 degrees from the slit.
At either end of the cylinder there is a chamfer of 30 degrees for about 2mm
on the od of the cylinder. I dont know what the material is. The part is
stamped with 4050DU D10A GGB. It has a plastic coating on the inside.

The belts are D&D Syncro Power Belt HTD600-8M for the timing belt and
Carlisle Variable Speed Cog-Belt 2332V373 23/16 wide, 32 degree pulley angle,
37.3" long. This belt does not show up in the Carlisle catalog so it may be a custom belt.

The Grease is Mobil Premium Lubricating Grease - 2 14oz tubes.

I am not sure how to get to the 6008Z bearings (7066)? It might be more obvious once the case is open.
JHenriksen
Posts: 286
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2003 8:39 pm
Location: Roscoe, Illinois

Re: Need Instructions for Lagun FTV2 Mill Head Rebuild

Post by JHenriksen »

Did they send you the long bushings with a slot or 4 short bushings? They have changed the design to use all short bushings. They are interchangeable. I prefer the short ones becasue i dont need to worry about getting th ekeyway slots lined up correctly.
The bushings can be found generically - Garlock Glacier bushings come in 40mm id X 20 and 30 mm. I get them at Motion Industries.
The plastic lining is very similar to turcite. The thin slit is just the joint, these are rolled out of flat stock I think.

The belt should be metric. 35X10x900. I think the belt they sent may be too long and too wide. I'll pull one out of the parts boix to verify the actual size.
ab4td
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2010 3:55 pm

Re: Need Instructions for Lagun FTV2 Mill Head Rebuild

Post by ab4td »

The major source of the bearing noise was from the Lagun 7058 bearing (6012zz) with the Lagun 7073 (6007zz) adding in its own noise.
The belts, bushings and keys were fine, but I am replacing those.

John's help got me through the disassembly in good order. I had a couple of extra steps I needed to get the swash plate shoulder bolts
(Lagun 5050 ) out - the upper housing was blocking the screw head. That was solved by removing bolts from the upper housing so it had
a small amount of give.

Now the motor shaft spring, Lagun 7033, is wicked. The snap ring, Lagun 6519, holds on the retainer bushing (Lagun??),
and everything will fly if given an chance once the ring is pulled. Not sure how we are going to get that back on. I think it takes
5 hands to do safely.

The spindle top bearing, Lagun 7073, comes out easily when that snap ring is removed, Lagun 6519 (same number for another snap ring).

Once the motor and the upper head cover has been removed, the upper sheave from the spindle can be pulled. With it come the
bearing, Lagun 7058, and the swag plate mount that fits over the bearing. Now you might be able to pry this bearing from the upper
sheave with pry bars, but I had to first pull the swag plate mount off of the bearing with a gear puller and then do the same with the bearing.
Lots of force required to do this. I used a very large socket to fit in the sheave center to prevent damage to the sheave.
This was a 36mm socket, but it was inverted, with the point of the puller lead screw into the socket side - and riding on a nut.
The socket needs to be bigger than 1 and 3/4 inch.

I was able to press (hydraulic press) the Glacier sheaves out of the bores of the sheaves using a light duty 12 point, 1 and 5/16 socket
too bad I didnt remove the little screws. There is one screwed into each of the keys, I dont think they do much other than aid in
assembly so I wont be putting those back in. I managed to shear off each of these pointed screws.
I think they are listed as stud 4mm x 15, Lagun 7089.

I will work up a step by step on this. Still havent figured out why I need so much Grease. Tomorrow is reassembly. I took an audio recording of the noise before. Looks like it was just bearing noise.
ab4td
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2010 3:55 pm

Re: Need Instructions for Lagun FTV2 Mill Head Rebuild

Post by ab4td »

The Glacier bushings were long - 50.3mm long 40mm id 44mm od. I may have missed the question - as nothing about these are 30mm.

The belt removed was a Lagun Belt. It measured 32degree included angle x 35.5mm across (roughly).
The belt I have is a 2332V373 which breaks down to 23/16 32 degrees and 373 cogs (or so) . 23/16 is 36.5mm. So it seems to be a little
wider - but that is not significant with as the 32 degree angle is the key factor. The spring load on the motor pulley should hold
it in place but with the 1mm difference in width the speed might be off the registration by a small margin.
The only concern I have with this belt is on the highest speed setting and lowest speed setting, will the openings of the pulleys be sufficient,
or will I get stopped short of the max speed or slowest speed.
There was a previous thread on the belt size and some statements about a 2322V373 belt. I measured the angles of the teeth on old original and new 2332V373 and they matched. Im not sure if a 2322V373 would work correctly as it would have a 22 degree included angle.
So I am willing to try the 2332V373 belt and report on the function.

I found a 8 strips of material in the bottom of the Speed control bezel at the front of the machine. These were wedge shaped about
3.9mm at the widest and 2mm at the narrowest and about 4mm tall. These are some type of very soft metal and brittle metal.
I have no idea where this came from. The longest was about 4 inches tall. Seem like some scrap that was left there
ab4td
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2010 3:55 pm

Re: Need Instructions for Lagun FTV2 Mill Head Rebuild

Post by ab4td »

Figured out how to compress the variable spring drive 3" spring.
I went to Home Depot and bought a $5 2" Electrical conduit Compression Coupling. I only used the nut portion as it just fit inside the
end bushing for the end of the motor shaft. I took a short section of 2 x 10 and using a circle cutter in a drill press, I cut a 2.60" hole
to fit the smallest end of the nut portion of the conduit compression nut. I have pictures. The small nut fits inside the hole in board.
The large end fits in the bushing. This allows the person or persons pressing the spring down to keep control of the location of the
bushing to fit it on the shaft and locate it low enough for another trusting sole to put the snap ring in place. I would triple check the
location of the snap ring and its proper installation before releasing too much pressure on the spring.

I did buy 3 6mm x 50mm socket head screws and used the holes in the end bushing to pull the spring tighter. This allowed some
play in the two conical plates on the motor shaft. I checked the fit of each of the belts mentioned earlier. This showed that
the 2332V373 rides about 3/16 of an inch further out than the Lagun standard belt. It rides about 7" in diameter as opposed to 6.8" or so.
This would result in an effectively shorter belt by 5/8" or more. So I will put the old belt back on as its not very worn.
I would appreciate any comments about the 2332V373 belt. If its not right or useful, I should go to H&K and see if they will send a
replacement. If nothing else a 2232V373 belt would be much closer.

Now I mentioned shearing off the screws that went into the nytril keys. I see that its useful and necessary to put them back.
So, I purchased a hand full of 3mm x 12mm flathead cap screws (must have the taper on the heads). The 12mm length was
good for the nytril keys on the motor. But 3x12mm was too long for the spindle keys, they need an 8 or so. I ground these to fit.

I drilled a .99" hole in each key - just deep enough for each screw and installed them. I was careful to keep the drill holes close to
the needed depth. That worked great. Now the keys wont fall out when installing the pulley halves.

The 3" spring when installed should be rotated to hit the stop screws on both of the end pieces. There is a set screw on both parts
where the spring sets. If done correctly this should align the key on the bottom bushing and shaft keyway and the three bolt holes that will be needed to compress the spring for installation of the belt. This will be obvious when you see it. You use the 3 6mm x 50mm cap head
socket screws there.

In one of my posts, I mentioned that the 7058 bearing (6012zz) had to be "pulled". With a minimum of cleanup on the shaft
the new bearing slides into place. Now I can appreciates Johns comment about having to use locktite on the bearing to hold it in place.

My vacation was interrupted by some work related activity today. So the reassembly continues tomorrow.
ab4td
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2010 3:55 pm

Re: Need Instructions for Lagun FTV2 Mill Head Rebuild

Post by ab4td »

I see I typoed the hole size - it was .099" a number #39. Ideal tap hole for 3mm is 2.5mm drill.
ab4td
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2010 3:55 pm

Re: Need Instructions for Lagun FTV2 Mill Head Rebuild

Post by ab4td »

I waited 24 hours for the "loctite" to set. I am using Permatex High Temperature Sleave Retainer PX#64000 on the 7058 bearing/spindle shaft to
keep the bearing inner race from spinning on the spindle shaft. Should be sufficient. Will complete the re-assembly tomorrow.

Jim Smith
ab4td
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2010 3:55 pm

Re: Need Instructions for Lagun FTV2 Mill Head Rebuild

Post by ab4td »

The Lagun is back together now. It takes two people to wrestle the belt on and I used the old belt that is effectively longer than the new onethat I had received.
For the Speed Control connection, I used a wire to pull up the "chain". The speed adustment for Lagun consists of a chain similar to a bicycle chain of about 8 inches or so. This chain is shortened by winding it on a spool. The spool is turned by a worm drive which is controled by the speed control knob.

When you put this back together you need a wire to pull up the end of the chain so you can connect it with the bolt and space that
are used to tie it to the front end of the swag plate. As the chain is shortened, it will pull the swag plate downward. This pivots the plate. The swag plate mount on the spindle is on top of bearing 7058. I had to use adhesive on the bearing and mount. It had been locked on by the loctite 609 which made it necessary to use the puller to get if off of the bearing. The swag plate is connected to the mount by two shoulder bolts which enable it to pivot and apply a downward force. As the swag plat pivots downward it pulls the spindle pulley cones together. The motor pulley cones are forced apart by this action due to the action of the big spring. This changes the ratio between the pulleys as the belt now runs at a different track. The radius of the belts track on the motor pulley is larger in relation ship to the track of the belt on the spindle pulley and this slows down the spindle. If the chain is lengthened, the spring on the motor shaft applies pressure to
to reverse the process and open up the spindle cones and close the motor half cones. This forces the track of the belt on the
motor shaft pulley to follow a smaller radius track and the track of the belt on the spindle pulley to follow a larger radius. This increases the
speed at the spindle shaft.

I have some pictures and a before and an after audio files. I will post them to my web site and post the URL.



To release the spring, you must locate the access hole in the lower part of the upper gear cover immediately under the motor spinde. This is an access port to allow removal of the three 6 x 50 socket head screws that wereused to unload pressure and open up the two conical plates so you can get the belt on.

The noise that I was trying to eliminate has disappeared.
I have recordings from before and after the repair. I will post the URL of the audio and some pictures.
hkcarbine
Posts: 69
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2010 4:27 pm
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada

Re: Need Instructions for Lagun FTV2 Mill Head Rebuild

Post by hkcarbine »

Appreciate your sharing the process of overhauling the mill head. I look forward to the pictures and audio.

Roger Q
mspetersen
Posts: 75
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2013 12:26 pm

Re: Need Instructions for Lagun FTV2 Mill Head Rebuild

Post by mspetersen »

I know this is an old post, but I'd like to add it came in handy rebuilding the head on my Lagun FTV-3. Bought the parts kit from Lagun, which included the main belt, 3 bearings, two bushings and the four nylon keys. Price as of March 2017 was $410. I also asked them for the drawings which they supplied.

One difference was that the spring assembly on the motor pulley on my FTV-3 only had holes for two Allen bolts (6mm x 25mm) I'll note that I found it easier to remove the motor by loosing the cover on the head and sliding it forward a couple inches to remove the main belt. Used a gear puller to compress the pulleys and install the 6mm Allen bolts for reinstallation.

I also had an issue with the mill not wanting to go over 2900 RPM. Turns out when the power drawbar had been installed by a previous owner it looks like they made a real mess of it with stripping the bolt holes and ended up installed some steel underneath which didn't allow the swag plate to move completely. Removed that and reinstalled everything properly by drilling new mounting holes for the bearing plate that holds the top of the spindle and for the power drawbar (which is a standard Kurt aftermarket kit.) Now I can get the full 4200 RPM out of the machine. I actually had it running over 5000 RPM, but adjusted it downward as I'm not sure what speed the bearings are rated for.

Looking forward to making chips!
Mark Petersen

12" x 36" Logan Lathe
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