Knee Mill Chip Pan

Discussion on all milling machines vertical & horizontal, including but not limited to Bridgeports, Hardinge, South Bend, Clausing, Van Norman, including imports.

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Harold_V
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Re: Knee Mill Chip Pan

Post by Harold_V » Thu Oct 04, 2012 10:47 pm

shootnride wrote:
Harold_V wrote:Can you say Oil-Dri (or kitty litter)?
Ya Harold, I've used the kitty litter several times but I'd rather keep the oil off the floor in the first place. At least as much as I can.
If you come up with a way, please do make it known publicly, so others can benefit. Right now, the idea of a pan isn't too enticing, as it would simply create different problems, including safety issues.

I've operated machine tools (commercially) since 1957 and have yet to find anything that can contain all the oil. There's always the mist from high speed spindles to deal with, if nothing else. I learned, long ago. to keep a thin bed of Oil-Dri on the floor. After years of machining in my first shop, the floor was perfectly free of oil deposits. The only real problem is the dusting that occurs from the dry condition.

Harold
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warmstrong1955
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Re: Knee Mill Chip Pan

Post by warmstrong1955 » Fri Oct 05, 2012 1:40 pm

shootnride wrote:
Bill,
Holy cow ! If you make very many of those bearings, you need to get one of those vacuum hoods like they use in cabinet shops for your mill :)

Ted
That pic was after doing only the first one. They were UHMW rectangular bars, 5-1/2"W x 6"H x 60" long, and the groove I cut in 'em was 2.65"W x 4.50"H....not including a few bevels added for weld clearance added after I took that first one down for a test fit. Thazza bunch of chips.
Didn't take long....I used a 2" dia shell mill. You can scream through that stuff.

Took a lot longer to shovel the snow. :lol: I shoulda taken a picture.... it was closer to my knees than my ankles....

As for the oil thing when workin' with steel....my floor is sealed, so no soakin' in. I have a nice anti-fatigue mat in front of my mill to keep me from slippin' & slidin' and fallin' on my butt should there be too much oil...but I find that most of the oil ends up on me rather than the floor anyway.... :lol: If not.... a little floor dry and a cleanup after I'm done. Pretty easy when you have a sealed or painted floor. Advantage of the sealing over painting..... you still have the same surface as natural concrete....not slick like you get with the paint.

My 2 cents....A chip pan would not be of any advantage....just a pain when I got to cleanin' up.

Bill
Today's solutions are tomorrow's problems.

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GlennW
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Re: Knee Mill Chip Pan

Post by GlennW » Fri Oct 05, 2012 1:56 pm

Do you use flood coolant with the Bridgeport/EZ Trak or just machine dry?
Glenn

Operating machines is perfectly safe......until you forget how dangerous it really is!

shootnride
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Re: Knee Mill Chip Pan

Post by shootnride » Fri Oct 05, 2012 3:11 pm

Bill and Glenn,
Thank you both for your input. I think most of the oil I end up with on the floor is actually way oil. My mill has the automatic oiling system on it and I may have it set to pump more oil than necessary, but I kind of subscribe to the school of thought that when it comes to lubricating ways, too much is better than not enough.

Glenn,
No, I don't use flood coolant. When milling aluminum it's typically dry. With steel I usually brush or squirt on cutting oil as needed. I do fully understand that having a pan to catch chips is futile. What I've been using up to this point is just sheets of heavy duty cardboard large enough to catch the oil and also stand on. Then when the cardboard gets bad enough I just replace it. Maybe that's an ok solution. I think it bothers me most just because it looks pretty hokey :lol:

Ted
Some people raise the IQ of the room when they enter.........others when they leave.

pete
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Re: Knee Mill Chip Pan

Post by pete » Fri Oct 05, 2012 4:12 pm

Hi Ted,
Maybe a few more thoughts if you don't mind?
If I remember correctly, Frank Ford has shown his vertical mill more than a few times here wearing the equivilent of a bullet proof vest.

I'm also a firm believer in too much way oil is dirt cheap protection.

After some thinking, there's at least one website that I'll be damned if I can remember where that shows some real constructive design work using partial sections of fairly heavy wall steel pipe and sectioned pipe fittings welded to + .125 thick steel plate. These were then ground down with angle grinders, finish shaped with files, a little welding / grinding to again fill in the low spots and then painted. It made a more than very convincing impression of a cast iron grinder stand.

It would obviously be dead easy to add chip, oil guarding if you only made one single item. But the experienced woodworkers seem to be able to adapt off the shelf hardware to end up with some pretty effective home built chip and dust collector set ups that allow a huge range of adjustability. I have to think we as HSM or even commercial machinist types just haven't applied enough thought and effort into designing and building some type of universal, yet quickly hand adjustable set of hinged and sliding chip and lube guards so far. Even using a good grade of light ply with a light gauge sheet metal bonded to it in the same way arborite is done with contact adhesive would work. Obviously you'd need to delete the high speed router bits and methods if your not using aluminum sheet metal. But a hand file would do it anyway for steel or even stainless. Add some rabbited in piano hinges, dadoed woodworker type aluminum tee slot material, some extruded aluminum like some of the cnc enclosures use, and some hand operated locking knobs, and your then probably capable of captureing at least 90% of the crud while still allowing for the table movements in 3 dimensions. I'd bet money a seperate design thread and a bit of time would get you about all the input you could handle, and anybody with a knee mill would get the future benifits also.

For all I know this may already have been done on the CNC Zone forum. It probably has.

Pete

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GlennW
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Re: Knee Mill Chip Pan

Post by GlennW » Fri Oct 05, 2012 8:18 pm

Hello Ted,

Have you bumped into this one yet?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/CHIP-TRAY-FOR-K ... 588f42f2ed

There is another one for a Deckel fo about the same price, but it's small.

But, on the other hand, it's an awesome excuse to purchase a brake, shear, and a sheet of 16 ga. P&O sheet!! :)
Glenn

Operating machines is perfectly safe......until you forget how dangerous it really is!

shootnride
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Re: Knee Mill Chip Pan

Post by shootnride » Sat Oct 06, 2012 8:51 am

Hi Pete & Glenn,

Pete, You have some pretty good suggestions. I think I'm going to spend some more time doing more research and some more doodling (?) and see if I can come up with a better idea. I have also seen a website some time ago that another home machinist had that showed many different tools and accessories he had made. I remember that he had enclosed his mill with what resembled a wrap-around shower curtain type affair. I have used similar enclosures for welding. I know these are commercially available. They would limit the distance the chips would fly but still not address the oil situation. As far as making a "nice" custom pan goes, if I still had access to sheet metal tools, it would already be sitting under my mill. But without the proper equipment, it becomes a nightmare to fabricate. Thanks very much for your input.

Glenn,
That pan is similar to the other one I've seen on e-Bay and is pretty much the type of thing I have in mind. But with the cost of those with the shipping charges, I think I could probably have one fabricated locally. I guess I'm being cheap, but I really didn't want to invest $400-$500 in a pan. So, one way or another, I'll likely end up making my own.
As far as using this as an excuse to buy a brake and shear, believe me, if I had the room, there's a good possibility that would happen. It wouldn't be the first time I used a project as an excuse to buy another tool. Actually, I think that's basically how I ended up with the lathe and mill :lol: Thanks for your input.

Ted
Some people raise the IQ of the room when they enter.........others when they leave.

shootnride
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Re: Knee Mill Chip Pan

Post by shootnride » Thu Oct 18, 2012 2:55 pm

Well I finally decided to abandon the idea of making a sophistcated drip pan since I don't have the proper equipment to fabricate it and also, I don't really have the need because I don't use flood coolant. So, I just fabbed a steel framework with a flat sheetmetal bottom to keep the way oil off of the floor. Seems to be working ok. Some pics attached.

Ted
Attachments
DSCN0827-1.jpg
DSCN0830-1.jpg
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GlennW
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Re: Knee Mill Chip Pan

Post by GlennW » Thu Oct 18, 2012 3:29 pm

Nothin' wrong with that at all!!

I've got one about like that, but it's 6" deep with a 20 gal coolant reservoir below it.
Glenn

Operating machines is perfectly safe......until you forget how dangerous it really is!

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Davo J
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Re: Knee Mill Chip Pan

Post by Davo J » Thu Jul 11, 2013 7:03 pm

Nice job,
I was just sent an email to this on Homemade tools which brought me back here.
http://www.homemadetools.net/mill-chip-pan

I honestly have never seen your tray until today
How minds can be thousands of K's away and think the similar.
http://www.metalworkingfun.com/showthread.php?tid=1322


Dave

shootnride
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Re: Knee Mill Chip Pan

Post by shootnride » Sun Jul 14, 2013 7:39 am

Davo J wrote:Nice job,
I was just sent an email to this on Homemade tools which brought me back here.
http://www.homemadetools.net/mill-chip-pan

I honestly have never seen your tray until today
How minds can be thousands of K's away and think the similar.
http://www.metalworkingfun.com/showthread.php?tid=1322


Dave
Dave,

That's a beautiful coolant/chip pan you built. If I ever decide to start using coolant on my mill, I'll have to either modify mine or make a new one that functions more like yours.
I had no idea that the pan I made was on that Homemade Tools website until you posted it. Interesting.........????

Thanks for posting.

Ted
Some people raise the IQ of the room when they enter.........others when they leave.

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Davo J
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Re: Knee Mill Chip Pan

Post by Davo J » Mon Jul 15, 2013 5:08 am

Hi Ted,
Lot's of people say the same thing about that site, he is not actually stealing the posts because he posts the original links and only has one photo.
I would take it as a compliment.

When I came to the part around the knee screw I came up with a splash proof idea which looking at yours is pretty similar.
I made mine light weight so it can be taken outside to be washed out, and it worked out great because I can carry it with just a few fingers it's that light.

Dave

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