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 Post subject: Small knee mill
PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 1:44 am 
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Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2013 6:35 pm
Posts: 66
Location: North Mississippi
Just want to hear opinions on the small knee mills that usually have a 6" by 26" table. I like the looks of them and they seem much better than a mini mill. I think one of these would be the largest I could go due to a lack of space and I think I could actually move one of these without too much help or equipment. So I wanna hear all the bad and all the good you know of because at this point I'm strongly considering these. BTW, who all makes them? So far the cheapest I ran across were HF and Wholesale Tool and Penn Tool Co. I'm sure Ill look for a used one though.


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 Post subject: Re: Small knee mill
PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:00 am 
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Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2005 6:18 pm
Posts: 4371
Location: Connecticut
My dad has an Arborga. He likes it a lot.

It's not a knee mill, but the column has quite a bit of travel.

It takes up about as much space as a drill press.

Image

http://www.lathes.co.uk/arboga/index.html

Steve


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 Post subject: Re: Small knee mill
PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:19 am 
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Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2010 8:11 pm
Posts: 2209
Location: Mesa, Arizona. 85201-1517
Steve,

That is ONE BEEFY SMALL MILL. :wink:

Very Cool. 8)

Ken. :)

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The best learning experiences come
from working with the older Masters.
Ken.


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 Post subject: Re: Small knee mill
PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 12:51 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2009 12:36 pm
Posts: 830
Location: Vancleave, Mississippi
My recommendation fo a small knee type mill would be one similar to the Grizzly G-0728. It costs $2995 and is made in Taiwan. They also have a less expensive mill model G-3102 for 300$ less, but it is made in China. My mill is very similar to the G-0728. It was made in Taiwan and is the typical 6x26 mill. There are many 6x26 mills on the market, both made in China or Taiwan. I would go with one made in Taiwan. Mine is very sturdy due to it's construction. You may be able to find a used one for half the price of new. Try to find one that has handwheels on both ends of the X-axis table. This is for backlash reasons.

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Mr.Ron from South Mississippi


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 Post subject: Re: Small knee mill
PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 1:36 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2010 12:40 pm
Posts: 1818
Location: N.S. Canada
Mr Ron, I would be curious as to how handles at both ends of the table address backlash?


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 Post subject: Re: Small knee mill
PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 2:42 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2002 11:02 pm
Posts: 13719
Location: Onalaska, WA USA
stevec wrote:
Mr Ron, I would be curious as to how handles at both ends of the table address backlash?

That's a recipe for future trouble. One should learn to work with backlash, as it's a fact of life and has little to do with the performance of a machine unless it is not managed properly.

Once one forms the habit of addressing backlash, it's as if it doesn't exist. I liken it to being able to fashion cutting tools from HSS. An art that, once mastered, seems to be a non-issue.

Harold

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 Post subject: Re: Small knee mill
PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 7:53 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2006 11:04 pm
Posts: 4036
Location: mid atlantic
SteveM. What a neat mill and your just going to have to introduce us to the wonder machine in the background.!
DM95. Sorry for driving off the topic but see what he did there? like a flashburn!!


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 Post subject: Re: Small knee mill
PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 8:44 pm 
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Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2013 6:35 pm
Posts: 66
Location: North Mississippi
I dont mind you getting off topic. I'm glad SteveM shared that picture with us because I cant say I've seen that particular type of mill before. Some of you have mentioned the difference in the Chinese and Taiwan mills and how you prefer the Taiwan mills. I was looking today and I see that the grizzly G3102 mill is a whole lot more than say the HF or Wholesale Tool mini knee mill with 6" by 26" table. The WT mill says it has a 29 inch table but I wondered if that wasn't just a mistake, and its really 26. So is there a difference in the Grizzly mill and the cheaper ones or is it just the cost? Penn Tool Co also sells a version of this mill for around $1900.00, but the Wholesale Tool one runs about $1800.00. I still hope to find a used one but I've yet to see this type of mill on Craigslist and only one on eBay.


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 Post subject: Re: Small knee mill
PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 1:31 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2009 12:36 pm
Posts: 830
Location: Vancleave, Mississippi
stevec wrote:
Mr Ron, I would be curious as to how handles at both ends of the table address backlash?

The left hand dial reads increasing increments, while traversing left to right. If I were to traverse from right to left, the left dial would be reading decreasing increments. By using the right hand wheel, I can keep the increments reading increasing increments. It's more of a convenience than a backlash thing, but I can also compensate for backlash by zeroing the dial before traversing. I hope I made it sound clear.

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Mr.Ron from South Mississippi


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 Post subject: Re: Small knee mill
PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 3:43 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2009 9:33 pm
Posts: 1033
Location: Phoenix ,AZ
That style mill has been around for years,had one made in 1980 branded "Husky" . Much more ridged than a mill/drill but with the same PITA of speed changes and not a lot of daylight between quill and table. Almost every supplier of home type machines has one of those in their line. Personally I don't see a lot of difference between a Taiwan or Mainland made machine quailty wise ,more boils down to the sellers rep and after sale backup if needed.

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 Post subject: Re: Small knee mill
PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 3:56 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2002 11:02 pm
Posts: 13719
Location: Onalaska, WA USA
Mr Ron wrote:
stevec wrote:
Mr Ron, I would be curious as to how handles at both ends of the table address backlash?

The left hand dial reads increasing increments, while traversing left to right. If I were to traverse from right to left, the left dial would be reading decreasing increments. By using the right hand wheel, I can keep the increments reading increasing increments. It's more of a convenience than a backlash thing, but I can also compensate for backlash by zeroing the dial before traversing. I hope I made it sound clear.

I understand how you'd use both dials---what I don't understand is how you'd use them for multiple features. I'm going to use a series of holes in a work piece as an example.

You have a large number of holes you must revisit. Some require contersinking, while others require counterbores. Some require tapping. Where you are on the work piece will determine if you move clockwise, or counterclockwise on the handle, to the succeeding location. The direction of travel is ever changing, and may or may not be the same for each hole you visit, depending on how you work. Which one do you use for each location? If you use the wrong one, you miss location by the amount of backlash in the screw.

The above example is very real. I've done a huge amount of work that requires the steps described. I've done it all with just one dial, because I work with backlash and don't worry about having to select the proper handle to use. It also prevents me from running end to end on my machine.

Do yourself a favor and learn to manage backlash for table travel in an acceptable manner. It will bail you out at some point in the future. After all, you do it with the saddle all the time, don't you?

Harold

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Wise people talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to say something.


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 Post subject: Re: Small knee mill
PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 3:59 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2010 12:40 pm
Posts: 1818
Location: N.S. Canada
Mr Ron wrote:
It's more of a convenience than a backlash thing, but I can also compensate for backlash by zeroing the dial before traversing. I hope I made it sound clear.

It may be a convenience thing but even if you can't subtract as well as you add, your going to have to compensate for the backlash before zeroing your dial. Or am I missing something.

Ooops! I guess you beat me to it Harold.


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