Mill Size Comparison

[H&NERY]

I had my little Sherline mill at my shop where I work the other day making a base for it and thought I would take some pictures of it setting next to my full sized Lagun mill. I thought it would be neat to compare their size if anyone hadn't seen a full sized mill vs. a mini mill in person before.

[JackF]

Looks like work is kinda slow around the shop, not a single chip on the floor or anywhere.


Jack.

[scmods]

Jack,

What's a floor? Still owe the pic of the W-T DP.

Bill Walck

[Jaxian]

I just went through the exact same thing. It also involved a Lagun mill. I love my Lagun, big table, lots of power and much more rigid than clones or even a real BP. Nearly 3000lbs and a 10x50 table makes for a serious step up over hobby type machines. Then I wanted to move a bit more metal.

Here is the comparison from the last month or so. Very odd to see my Lagun not be the overwhelming machine in the garage anymore.

The Lagun and it's new horizontal friend from Ohio. The change from 3hp and a single belt to 20hp and 8 is one thing. The 10x50 table seeming cramped next to the 17x80 table is weird. Near 3000lbs provide plenty of rigidity but over 11,000lbs makes the Cincinnati seem like it is a solid piece of rock.

Also the size of end mills went from a preferred 1/2" or 3/4" to well, you can see the picture below. Also my 3" face mill used to tear things up in the Lagun. You can see it at work. Then next to one of the ones from the Cincinnati. This is going to take some serious getting used to on my part. The machine is also lethal if you aren't careful. I think I have a few more photos of stuff I got with it I will put in the next post.

I must say though I got this because I am impatient doing roughing work for one, but mostly because it was a unbelievable deal and close to me out west where you never find these machines that often. It is though, way overkill for casual job shop and home type stuff. Everything is dangerous, expensive to fix and heavy. He gave me an angle plate surface ground to under .0004 accuracy (he was a mold and die maker). You can see it in the first photo on the hand truck. He gave it to me because he said he couldn't think of anyone else with a machine big enough to put it on. I have to use a chain hoist to get it on the table. Same thing with the rotary table, it's 400lbs.

[Jaxian]

Here are the other photos mentioned from above.

[Jaxian]

Oh, and what the little face mill did to the floor using the Lagun and a relatively low rpm. I work with a shop vac next to me.

[stevec]

Wow Jaxian, what a lovely BEAST. The comparison with the Lagun puts things in perspective. Thanks.

[H&NERY]

That makes the Lagun look like a Sherline, almost! Nice equipment you have there.

[BadDog]

Love the Cinci, I am unbelievably Jealous!

[Russ Hanscom]

I am sure you will need a whole new approach to fastening parts to the table to take advantage of its metal removal capability.

I once was offered a 24" shaper in good operating condition just for hauling it away. The shop owner, where we had occasional work done, was upgrading to a machining center, and has he had two or three shapers that rarely saw use, decided they had to go. I declined as I had no way to move 6000# of iron, and several moves later, I have no regrets, but I hated to see the machine moved out into the alley and just sit there.

[Jaxian]

Yeah, there was a lot of soul searching to this before I pulled the trigger. I was just looking for a nice No.2 size machine, either Cincinnati or K&T. Still like 5k lbs but very compact and would do all that cool stuff that horizontals can do. Plus that rigidity. I searched for over a year and everything out here was at least $6k-10k plus moving expense, plus tooling. With machines over 5k lbs that runs into riggers and professional moving equipment. I mean you can kind of fake it with the Bridgeport sized stuff, engine cranes, auto trailers, pry bars and the like. But break the 10k lbs limit and it gets really complicated.

So when this popped up within a few hours drive for a fantastic price from a one man shop for the last 30 years and completely functional I really had to think hard. Luckily I called first and the guy was more than cool, turned out after I bought it that there where like 5 other people waiting in line right after me to buy it, he just hadn't wanted to mention it to put any pressure on me. Truly a top notch individual.

I got a manual for it and made a cardboard cutout of the size footprint they said it would need on the floor. This was the beginning of "really, it's that big, that can't be right". Didn't seem to fit anywhere. Found one position where I can actually move the table full travel in every position. That 42" of X axis travel is so much more than it sounds like.

When it runs it's kind of noisy (straight cut gears in the gearbox) but smooth. You can hear the power but at the same time nothing is moving or shaking. Until you start pulling levers. I admit at this point barely a month into owning it I am spending lots of time cleaning it and changing the oil and messing with small stuff. I have yet to dig in and make serious chips with it. Kind of intimidated.

My Lagun has shown me just what a full size machine is capable of and it is impressive, I love that machine and respect what it can do. Then I look at the Cincinnati and how much bigger everything is and how much bigger it's performance envelope is and people keep telling me to be VERY careful or I will get myself into trouble and it is causing me to drag my feet on jumping into regular use yet.

I worked out the powerfeed speeds on a standard electric drive (Servo) from a Bridgeport type machine so I could calculate cutting speeds. The IPM came out to be about 5ipm per number starting at 1ipm at 1 then working to 40ipm at 9. Rapid is also 40ipm. The Cincinnati is one of the slower feed earlier versions but still goes to 60ipm and the rapids are 150ipm. If you have ever hit the rapid on a Bridgeport clone and see how fast that table moves at 40ipm then you can get an idea of what happened the first time I hit the 150ipm rapid on a 2500lb 17x80 table on the Cincinnati. I had been told to be careful because if there was anything in the way the weight and lack of any safety 'slip' or give function means you can punch a hole right in a wall, or flatten your shop vac under it (very, very close to doing that one) or put a hole in your best friend with the shaft sticking out of one side of the table.

Folks are telling me to forget the vertical turret mill default of using a vise for most stuff and learn to clamp everything to the table. Then immediately followed by the "don't stand where it will throw the things you didn't clamp down well enough" warning. I am going to start out really small and slow on this thing. Oh, and that I must build a chip shield for it because it will bury hot chips in a wall 25ft away when you get it moving. Since my car is still in the garage that would not be cool. I said I had a car cover, there was much laughter. Chip shield it is.

P.S. the price to ship it was twice what the machine cost. It was one of the first "oh, crap" moments I had realizing the size of the thing was not normal job shop type.

This is why you hire professionals, I can't imagine having flown 11,000+lbs over 10ft in the air.

[ctwo]

It needs to move about a foot to the right and rotated slightly.