Restoring a modified Allen 2-4-0 barn find

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FLSTEAM
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Re: Restoring a modified Allen 2-4-0 barn find

Postby FLSTEAM » Mon Jun 26, 2017 6:18 am

I think your burn rate is going to be more like 1 gal/hr.

John B
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Greg_Lewis
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Re: Restoring a modified Allen 2-4-0 barn find

Postby Greg_Lewis » Mon Jun 26, 2017 1:25 pm

While I don't know what issues you are facing re. the valve rod, keep in mind that Horrible Fright Tools is a good source for cheap wrenches and pliers that can be modified and have solved problems for other folks. Think about how they build a ship in a bottle, or perform some of that surgery through little holes. I bent up a HF wrench once to get into a tight spot and it worked.
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Steve Alley
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Re: Restoring a modified Allen 2-4-0 barn find

Postby Steve Alley » Tue Jul 11, 2017 12:40 am

I came across some of the original prints for this engine. and working on putting together a full set of prints. I will be making changes so it fits to the parts in stock. Most will anyway. But to remove or replace fractions to decimal's on this new prints that will be out soon.
Steve Alley

tyleire
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Re: Restoring a modified Allen 2-4-0 barn find

Postby tyleire » Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:51 pm

Definitely looking forward to getting my hands on those prints!

The back of the valve rod sheared off (I think it might have been pressed on) Managed to disassemble by desoldering the front without removing the boiler thankfully. While repairing, my friend and I noticed a good deal of slop and wear in the assembly, especially the expansion link block. When those plans are out, I'll check to see if the new EDM stevenson links for the mogul are a matching replacement.

20170709_180015.jpg

20170709_180032.jpg


Here my friend used an indicator to help find dead center by temporarily mounting a piece of scrap metal to the crossheads. With the slop, the valve still has a lot of play, so we think timing might need to be more trial and error as we continue the shakedown runs.

20170709_133943.jpg

tyleire
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Re: Restoring a modified Allen 2-4-0 barn find

Postby tyleire » Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:01 pm

First shakedown run with my buddy James at the controls.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sz5bKhEYXxQ



As you can see its all still a little rough. Priming is still a big problem even though this is the 6th time firing up. There was a good deal of oil and other crud draining out of the boiler when I bought the engine 2 years ago, and even with LSB8000, the water is still filthy, clogging up the atomizer and blower lines, injector, sight glass. I'm thinking about trying that Boiler Treat Ultra stuff to see if it can help.
The clacking you hear was a loose cylinder rod on the crosshead. Managed to fix that at the end of the run.
Timing is still off I think.
The cylinders and throttle need to be repacked.
The axle pump doesnt work at all due to a bad seal I think, which really needs to be fixed because the injector really takes a bite out of the steam pressure. Actually pretty much anything I attempted to do with all of these leaks killed pressure. Small boilers I guess.

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NP317
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Re: Restoring a modified Allen 2-4-0 barn find

Postby NP317 » Tue Jul 18, 2017 9:46 am

Progress!
Yes, the timing is severely off and preventing decent running.
Keep at it. That's one CUTE locomotive!
~RN

tyleire
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Re: Restoring a modified Allen 2-4-0 barn find

Postby tyleire » Fri Sep 29, 2017 3:43 am

After several washouts and a vinegar bath, I spent a considerable amount of time trying to figure out a way to clean the oil and grease out of the boiler. Running my fingers around the inside base of the steam dome and boiler shell revealed just how dirty it was.

20170805_152729.jpg


It seemed the thick lining of oil prevented the vinegar from doing it's job as the locomotive was still foaming, so what cleans out oil?

Sometimes you gotta fight fire with fire.

20170811_203617.jpg


I was pretty worried the soap would never clean out, and I'd have the worst foaming problems ever seen in this hobby, but thankfully that wasn't the case. I have to say that Tide detergent didn't quite work as well as I'd hoped even though I added two whole 'loads worth', so I went back to the supermarket and picked up a bottle of Cascade dishwasher detergent. Wow. That did the trick. Just one more vinegar bath to remove the flash rust, and a little baking soda solution to neutralize the acidic properties of the vinegar and I'm back in business with the added fragrance of Ocean Breeze scent every now and then when I punch the throttle.

Now to work on the running gear in time for the LALS fall meet...

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Re: Restoring a modified Allen 2-4-0 barn find

Postby marshall5 » Fri Sep 29, 2017 10:26 am

Probably too late now but I had a similar situation on my full size steam roller some years ago. Someone had kicked over a can of motion oil on the footplate and it had run down into the water tank underneath. Fortunately I noticed it before much, if any, got in the boiler. I didn't want to use a normal detergent in case it set off foaming in the boiler but a buddy gave me a sample of some industrial de-greaser that he used for cleaning the deck plates in the engine room of his tug boat. It looked like water, smelled slightly floral, and you just brushed it on, left it for a few mins then hosed it out. I got more in a gallon can from a local industrial supply co. I believe it was also used for shifting heavy grease in commercial kitchens - it didn't foam and was non-toxic but it would take every bit of oil out of your skin!
The problem is I can't remember its name but it was a series of letters and numbers rather like LSB8000!
Ray.

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Marty_Knox
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Re: Restoring a modified Allen 2-4-0 barn find

Postby Marty_Knox » Fri Sep 29, 2017 2:02 pm

My suggestion has nothing to do with the locomotive. Next time you may want to wear long pants and hard shoes.
Shorts and sandals are a safety hazard.

Steve Alley
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Re: Restoring a modified Allen 2-4-0 barn find

Postby Steve Alley » Fri Oct 20, 2017 7:40 pm

Two weeks ago when I seen this, I notice a few things. Mostly is was not making enough steam. But the valve timing is off. Your loosing more steam then what your making. Why loose valve gear is where your timing is off. Next the lap on the valve seat is very important. No scratches or the stem should float. Or should I say the valve it self should float but yet very little end play. Timing can be tricky, but remember the forward eccentric your adjusting for forward only. Then in reverse adjust this eccentric for it. Measure the travel to make sure your not to short on travel or to long on travel. This is do to the difference placement of forward and rear eccentric combined. So do this using a tubes on the cylinder cook outputs and a glass of water. Me, I leave off the valve chest cover and bolt the chest down with shorter screws. Doing a visual look at the valve opening and the timing with a indicator on the front cylinder head. Measure the travel to compare the two sides. Note 90 deg or true 90 deg matters One side may be early and the other side late. If so I try to slit the difference of valve action. But you can only get a little off set with this.
When Johnson bar is in true neutral position, You will see or should see very little or no movement on the valve when rolling this though. When you split the difference from not true 90 degs. you will have movement on one side. This is OK but it is what it is and can not change this. The two drive wheels are press together or machine incorrectly. If its off a lot as in more then 2 degs then yes. Press apart and make new axle. Still Make the axle correctly and just make the key offset to correct if this is the way the key way was cut in wheels off. No pressing this is the trick, I cut the axle area were the wheel area with a starting undersized length of .250" to allow a starting press. Your going to need a granite surface plate and height gauge to check the crank pin height when the other side on its crank pin is resting on a Joe block. Check one side then check the other side. should be the same. But also the wheel dia has to be the same on both wheels. So before removing the wheel from the original axle return the wheel and this is where you get the two to measure the same.
Just getting the timing correct and starting off with it correct then go after the burner and stack. To get a better fire and recovery rate to make steam. But with the timing off and the draft with the exhaust will make if work even better when the timing is right on.
Hope this helps and you have fun running as it was design to run. Checking measurement is so important. Foundation of a house. Right now its leaning.
Good luck and call me if you need help.
Steve Alley
P.S. I may be in the area on the 28-29, I know I will be stopping by some time but don't know sure when.

tyleire
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Re: Restoring a modified Allen 2-4-0 barn find

Postby tyleire » Mon Oct 23, 2017 1:37 pm

Marty_Knox wrote:Shorts and sandals are a safety hazard.

Agreed.

Here's a clip of the loco steaming around the LALS track. It's still out of time and in need of valve gear overhaul but steaming a little better. The only way we can get the fire large enough is to run rich, therefore soot is becoming a big problem and affecting steaming, not to mention a filthy mess every time we run, we have to first punch flues and wire brush the firebox. I'm guessing the burner might be a tad small for this engine and I think I might switch back to the bagley burner. Daydreaming about propane...

Also, the rod clacking is driving me nuts. I think there's too much play on the pin in the crosshead.


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cbrew
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Re: Restoring a modified Allen 2-4-0 barn find

Postby cbrew » Mon Oct 23, 2017 1:52 pm

tyleire wrote:
Marty_Knox wrote:Shorts and sandals are a safety hazard.

Agreed.

Here's a clip of the loco steaming around the LALS track. It's still out of time and in need of valve gear overhaul but steaming a little better. The only way we can get the fire large enough is to run rich, therefore soot is becoming a big problem and affecting steaming, not to mention a filthy mess every time we run, we have to first punch flues and wire brush the firebox. I'm guessing the burner might be a tad small for this engine and I think I might switch back to the bagley burner. Daydreaming about propane...

Also, the rod clacking is driving me nuts. I think there's too much play on the pin in the crosshead.



the sooting issue is the primary reason i switch over to propane 11 years ago. that narrow box is a reason.
which burner are you using again? even with a special burner that would project a very narrow flame path, i still had sooting issues when firing hard.

the rod clack can also be lateral movement also. the main rod on the american has a good bit of lateral movement. and it sounds same as the clacking i hear in the video.
If it is not live steam. its not worth it.

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