SP NG Diesel #1 (GE 50T) - Triennial or Bust

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BigDumbDinosaur
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Re: SP NG Diesel #1 (GE 50T) - Triennial or Bust

Post by BigDumbDinosaur » Mon May 14, 2018 7:12 pm

senorgilamonster wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 5:13 pm
Nice looking welds too - except for when we returned from lunch and forgot to turn the Argon back on.
Are you using straight argon to weld mild steel?
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senorgilamonster
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Re: SP NG Diesel #1 (GE 50T) - Triennial or Bust

Post by senorgilamonster » Mon May 14, 2018 7:45 pm

No, 75%.

RkCarGuy - sorry, I was referring to the big mystery hump:
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Re: SP NG Diesel #1 (GE 50T) - Triennial or Bust

Post by rkcarguy » Tue May 15, 2018 10:35 am

Oh I see, I was thinking a battery box inside, for the real batteries.
The MIG welder should be running 75/25.
How are you going to deal with the louvers? The only way I've been able to come up with is having some thin plates laser cut with a row of slots(beam width) on them, one for each louver, then make a little forming die and push the louver into it. Having them laser cut provides the spacing and the proper alignment, so all I've got to do is just line up the slot with the edge of the die and push.
I will probably have to clean up the penetration points with a little JB weld or bondo, but it should work.

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senorgilamonster
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Re: SP NG Diesel #1 (GE 50T) - Triennial or Bust

Post by senorgilamonster » Tue May 15, 2018 11:02 am

I looked very closely at the photos. The louvers doors have a cut out. The louvers are set behind that cut out - no part of the louvers extends in front of the door. This actually simplifies the issue. I am going to use an HVAC return grill and mount it to the inside of the door - viola - no pain. I have a grill from HD that I will prototype with...but I have seen one online that has the louvers spaced closer together and bent at a shallower angle, so it may be the way to go in the end. The cost will be about 5x higher with the latter solution though.
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senorgilamonster
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Re: SP NG Diesel #1 (GE 50T) - Triennial or Bust

Post by senorgilamonster » Tue May 15, 2018 11:14 am

first a good shot of the prototype louvers
Louver detail.png
Louver detail.png (34.16 KiB) Viewed 1457 times
and a 'shopped image with the prototype door and the HD louver behind it
louver previsualization.jpg
louver previsualization.jpg (4.63 KiB) Viewed 1457 times

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Re: SP NG Diesel #1 (GE 50T) - Triennial or Bust

Post by rkcarguy » Tue May 15, 2018 1:16 pm

That's sweet! Looks like the extra width of the louver panel can just extend behind the opening and it won't show. Nice of them to make the prototype that way for you haha! I am not so lucky on the S12. The louvers are pushed outwards in the skin and are only 1-1/4" to 1-3/8" long at scale. The only lucky part, is that it is a separate plate on each side, which wraps over the top of the hood and partially down the sides to the tops of the doors, and has most of the louvers cut in it. At least I don't have to painstakingly make them one at a time in the one piece formed "U" of the body.

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senorgilamonster
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Re: SP NG Diesel #1 (GE 50T) - Triennial or Bust

Post by senorgilamonster » Wed May 16, 2018 8:20 pm

1st Test Run on Saturday at Kitsap Live Steamers. IF it stays on the tracks reliably I will take 4 days out of my remaining build schedule to go to the TM Narrow Gauge meet. I will probably have to re-gear after the test run - TBD.

Everything that NEEDS to be there under the superstructure is done. Detail work excluded. I have a shot at getting the cab windows and the steel hood done before the NG Meet. Right now the nose and engine bay sides are wood. - but at least it looks like a train engine from 20' away.

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senorgilamonster
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Re: SP NG Diesel #1 (GE 50T) - Triennial or Bust

Post by senorgilamonster » Fri May 18, 2018 7:15 pm

what could possibly go wrong?
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Re: SP NG Diesel #1 (GE 50T) - Triennial or Bust

Post by 0351 » Sat May 19, 2018 10:24 pm

Wow! Really starting to take shape!
What degree of angle did you figure on thee nose of the long hood?
Also please give us some info on how you bent and attached the front handrail?
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senorgilamonster
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Re: SP NG Diesel #1 (GE 50T) - Triennial or Bust

Post by senorgilamonster » Sat May 19, 2018 11:08 pm

5 degrees.

Ah, you noticed the front handrail. :-) First I made a full size template to bend/build it on. The JPEG is available to anyone who wants it, and of course, it could be scaled up or down.
IMG_20180510_111003.jpg
3/16" steel rods. I just bent it freehand around the correct diameter stuff (like a scrap piece of 1 1/4" steel left over from one of the axles). I made the short tight bend at the bottom before cutting it from the longer piece of rod so that I had mechanical advantage (or at least a good hold). The angle from front to back is about an inch, so I just eyeballed it when I did the bend and got it close enough that it can be manhandled at the final mounting.

For the base stanchions I used a strip of 1/8" thick 1/2" wide bar from Ace/Tractor Supply and drilled a 3/16" hole in the center. Then I inserted the bar and welded. Once completed I cut the assembly off the bar with the portable band saw. I had a failure rate above 30%, so I started grinding a groove across the hole and didn't push the rod flush with the underside. That way I got a better weld that didn't fail when I ground the backside flush. IF a stanchion withstood the grinding, vibration from cutting and the 3' drop to the floor - it passed.
stanchions.jpg
With the process for the stanchions down, I drilled the bar and slid the ends of the curved rail into it - welded, ground down, and cut to length.

My son practiced welding the "T"s like the prototype, but it was not good enough. So I used handrail joints from Precision Steel Car (I had some on hand from the stretch Husky build) to see how it looked. Not like the SP1 prototype, but nice and certainly nicer than anything we were going to weld up, so I used 3 of those. http://www.precisionsteelcar.com/details_loco.html. PSC had bases as well, but they aren't prototypical for my build.

The bottom bar of the rail on the prototype sits outside the plane of the rest of the railing and is bolted on. I ran a bar across and just welded it on. One of my 3 welds was just perfect for the job too.

Finally, the attachment. In the end, I will probably weld or puddle weld the bases to the deck. I purchased a couple of 3mm bolts to see about drilling, tapping and then bolting them on, but decided against it (prototypical though). Since the deck is not permanently attached yet, I didn't want to weld them in place yet...so I put them on with 2 part epoxy. I figured it would stay on until I wanted to take it off, clean 'em up, and weld to the deck permanently. I am glad that I did. Today - at the test run - a helpful soul tried to push my loco from the front - using the handrail as his point of contact! :shock: Needless to say, the epoxy gave way, but at least the handrails didn't get all bent up.

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Re: SP NG Diesel #1 (GE 50T) - Triennial or Bust

Post by senorgilamonster » Sun May 20, 2018 10:25 pm

Track Report:
First the things that went flawlessly - The loading ramp and the flat car. The transfer to the minivan on the loading ramp was flawless. The flat car ran all day without a hiccup. I didn't expect much trouble since the trucks have previously been solid runners for me, but I did have to make some shims when I mounted them to the flat. Almost no side to side wobble despite the flat car being a couple of inches wider than the original steel gondola that they came from.

As far as the locomotive goes - At the base of the ramp from the steaming bays to ground level the club had installed a derailer since the last time I was there due to a runaway steam engine making it onto the mainline. It was clearly marked. But I ran it anyway and dumped the loco on the ground before ever hitting the yard. :oops: This in and of itself wasn't too bad, but the drive chain managed to get broken in the process. I assume that it got pinched between the rail head and the sprocket. After dragging it back to the steaming bay I discovered that I didn't bring any extra chain, etc. We did however find a couple of links that I brought. With a hand file, etc. we got the broken link out and got the chain hobble back together in a less than perfect manner. But to get it on the sprockets we removed the truck from the frame.

Adjusting the tension was a bit of a guess. We put it back together and got it past the derailer. I wanted to run it back and forth through the yard a few times before taking the mainline. We threw the drive chain 4 or 5 times. Finally I borrowed a screwdriver that would fit where I needed it to and tightened all of the slack out of the chain. I was worried that doing so would remove all of the axles ability to ride up and down on the suspension elements.

So, 2+ hours later we took to the main line. It ran like a champ. We made at least 5 circuits around the track without any issues. I have video of the suspension in action and it works great. On my last circuit my wife jinxed it by standing in the station video taping my arrival. 50' short of the platform I lost forward movement. The set screw for the drive sprocket had fallen out. I had not put locktite in since I figured that I would have to change the gearing and it caught up with me.

I went the 1 mile to an Ace hardware only to return and have it announced that the Play Day was ending 2 hours ahead of schedule (OK I was the only one there at that point besides the superintendent), so the new set screw and final lap didn't happen.

After the 3 hour trip home I checked the battery levels and was stunned at how little juice was used. .8V drop off of 51V.

a couple of issues - top speed: I never found out because I was afraid to go that fast. Definitely needs more teeth on the big gear for slower top speed/improved traction (no traction issues - it appears that it will be a strong hauler). BRAKING - definitely need to put this on the top of my list. The forerunner of the stretch Husky never gave me the need for brakes. You turned it off, it stopped even with 2 cars and 3 adults. This engine obviously has more mass. I turned off the power and it just kept going, and going, and going. I also tried to stop on a down grade...it ran all the way to the bottom of the grade. Since I don't believe in the Fred Flintstone method, I am going to have to DO something. Since I am not a steamer I don't have vacuum generation. I could run a compressor for air brakes...but not sure that I want to. Electric may be an option I'll have to explore or maybe hydraulic (like a motorcycle disc brake). In any event I want some form of braking in the next 4 days.

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Re: SP NG Diesel #1 (GE 50T) - Triennial or Bust

Post by rkcarguy » Mon May 21, 2018 11:03 am

Very cool that you got in that much run time despite the issues. I think as I've aged I've learned and done better and better, there are many times the maiden voyage never even started because something failed right off the bat. I think some larger/heavier size chain would treat you well, in being tougher in a derailment and also in being able to be ran a little looser to allow suspension travel without the chain hopping teeth.
I think several of the electric motor drives I've seen used a worm gear setup in them, which stops quickly once power is removed as the drive gear can't move back against the worm gear. I don't think these are ideal, because under braking it places a lot of force on the worm gear/motor and I think that's where these fail. The standard electric motor with plain sprockets is just going to keep going if the weight overcomes the resistance of the 12V motor without power applied. You're on the right track in my opinion, you just need some brakes.
There are many options for brakes. They make these mechanically activated disc brake calipers for the little gas scooters and mini-bikes, that are only $10-$30 a piece with pads. I'm going to be using rear disc brake car calipers, my own smaller size discs, and then run air over hydraulic on my locomotive due to it's heft. I bought the 150 PSI 12V compressor from Horrible Freight(better reviews) to supply air.

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