Building the Frisco 1522

Where users can chronicle their builds. Start one thread and continue to add on to it.

Moderators: Harold_V, WJH, hwboivin3

LocoJerome
Posts: 83
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2012 5:30 pm
Location: St. Louis, MO

Re: Building the Frisco 1522

Post by LocoJerome » Wed Jun 10, 2015 11:49 pm

Wow! That took a little longer than expected. I had hoped to be making chips months ago but building out the basement shop took a little longer than expected. What started out with painting the floor became hanging drywall, installing lights, running electrical, etc. but in the end I have a nice place with lots of light and outlets which will both be well appreciated in the long run. So the project is officially under way and I'm starting with the pilot truck which should be a good place for this newbie to start. The heart links were first up until I ran into a reamer I was missing so I had to put in the first of many orders for tooling and move on to the next part. The castings for the pilot truck are from Little Engines Pacific kit but I need to stretch the wheelbase 1-3/4" to match the prototype. I'm also using pilot wheels from the Railroad Warehouse Heavy Mikado that are 1.6" scale. The Little Engine's plans call out cast-iron journals. I'd like to use roller bearings so I'm looking at double sealed needle bearings. If anyone has suggestions I'm all ears.
Attachments
NewShopEmpty.jpg
New shop ready for tools.
NewShopWithTools.jpg
Starting to look more like a shop.
FirstChips.jpg
Heart link and first chips.
PilotSpring.jpg
Spring bracket

Harold_V
Posts: 17099
Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2002 11:02 pm
Location: Onalaska, WA USA

Re: Building the Frisco 1522

Post by Harold_V » Thu Jun 11, 2015 1:34 am

LocoJerome wrote:Wow! That took a little longer than expected.

I'm not surprised. I've been building for almost twenty years now. Anything that should have taken an hour has turned in to a day or more for me, but the end results are worth the effort.

Nice looking facility you've created :!: :wink:

Enjoy!

Harold
Wise people talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to say something.

Pontiacguy1
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Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2012 10:15 am
Location: Tennessee, USA

Re: Building the Frisco 1522

Post by Pontiacguy1 » Fri Jun 12, 2015 10:44 am

I've done this both ways, and my suggestion would be to get a Torrington needle bearing that has ONE seal on it, and put that to the inside. Needle bearings have zero thrust capability, so you will still be depending on the back of the wheels bearing against the outside face of the axle box to absorb your thrust when going through curves and switches.

I have started to use drilled axles that are then hardened, where you can put a few shots of oil or grease into the bearings through the center of the axle. Why do it this way and why use a single sealed bearing? because the excess oil or grease will come out towards the outside and will lubricate the thrust surfaces on your wheels and axle boxes. And so that you can re-lube them periodically.

Your axles will need to be hardened and ground to size for a needle bearing to live a long and happy life. I typically get my axles up to a 60 Rockwell C hardness, but really with the loads and speeds you will be running, anything in the mid-50s on up should last quite a long time. The Torrington catalog states that shafts should be within 0.0002" of nominal size for use as a raceway, but since this is not a precision installation, you can get away with more.

I have one that I made with double sealed needle bearings, and I had to take it apart to do some service after about 8 years. There was nothing wrong with the axle or the bearings, so I just re-packed them with grease and put them back into service. I do oil the thrust surface once per day so that the wheel backs and axle box faces will have some lube on them. Otherwise they would be dry. After 12+ years of operation, that lead truck rolls just a smooth as it did when I put the bearings in it.

LocoJerome
Posts: 83
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2012 5:30 pm
Location: St. Louis, MO

Re: Building the Frisco 1522

Post by LocoJerome » Fri Jun 12, 2015 11:13 am

Thanks Pontiacguy1, I read your suggestions in a similar posting from March of 2014 'Bushings (half brasses) in the main bearing?' and I'm leaning towards following that process. Two questions came to mind.

First, I wasn't clear exactly where the grease paths and fittings were located. I figured the easiest was to drill in from each end of the shaft and then drill a cross path from the bearing surface down to the center of the shaft. Is this what you did or did you take a different route? I'd prefer not to have grease fittings exposed on the ends of the shafts. I could drill further into the shaft and locate the fittings inboard of the journal boxes and plug the ends.

Secondly, how did you go about hardening your shafts? Was this something you did or send out to be done? Hardening is something I have no experience with but would love to learn how if it is practical since I see several instances it could be handy. Its on my list to research.

Rob Gardner
Posts: 375
Joined: Sun Oct 23, 2005 9:27 am
Location: Southwick, MA

Re: Building the Frisco 1522

Post by Rob Gardner » Sat Jun 13, 2015 10:36 pm

Jerome, what did you paint your floor with?

Rob Gardner

LocoJerome
Posts: 83
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2012 5:30 pm
Location: St. Louis, MO

Re: Building the Frisco 1522

Post by LocoJerome » Sat Jun 13, 2015 11:05 pm

Rob,

I used Rustoleum's Professional Garage Floor Paint. I bought it at Home Depot or Lowes. Can't remember which one carries it. The color is their Gray Gloss and then I followed it up with their clear coat. It makes for a pretty tough surface provided your floor prep is good. My father used it in his wood shop several years ago and it still looks new. Naturally, wood shavings are not as tough as metal shavings so we will see. I added the paints chips into the web gray paint for a little traction and it does help to mask imperfections in the concrete. His father's shop can get a little slick with saw dust on the floor.

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Greg_Lewis
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Joined: Wed Jan 15, 2003 2:44 pm
Location: Fresno, CA

Re: Building the Frisco 1522

Post by Greg_Lewis » Sun Jun 14, 2015 10:03 pm

Pontiacguy1 wrote: [snip]
I have started to use drilled axles that are then hardened, where you can put a few shots of oil or grease into the bearings through the center of the axle. Why do it this way and why use a single sealed bearing? because the excess oil or grease will come out towards the outside and will lubricate the thrust surfaces on your wheels and axle boxes. And so that you can re-lube them periodically.

Your axles will need to be hardened and ground to size for a needle bearing to live a long and happy life. I typically get my axles up to a 60 Rockwell C hardness, but really with the loads and speeds you will be running, anything in the mid-50s on up should last quite a long time. The Torrington catalog states that shafts should be within 0.0002" of nominal size for use as a raceway, but since this is not a precision installation, you can get away with more.
[snip]
You can also use hardened inner raceways that are pre-drilled for lube. Just press 'em on and be done. No precision turning and hardening.
Greg Lewis, Prop.
Eyeball Engineering — Home of non-interchangeable parts.
Our motto: "That looks about right."
Celebrating 30 years of turning perfectly good metal into bits of useless scrap.

LocoJerome
Posts: 83
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2012 5:30 pm
Location: St. Louis, MO

Re: Building the Frisco 1522

Post by LocoJerome » Mon Jun 15, 2015 9:19 am

Greg,

Thanks, the idea of the hardened sleeve really appealed to me but the journal boxes are not that large so I don't think I'll go the route in an effort to keep the shaft diameter as large as possible. Right now I'm planning on a shaft diameter of 5/8" which will give me a 13/16" bore in the journal for the needle bearings.

Pontiacguy1
Posts: 839
Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2012 10:15 am
Location: Tennessee, USA

Re: Building the Frisco 1522

Post by Pontiacguy1 » Mon Jun 15, 2015 11:27 am

I just drilled the axles like I would for oil lubrication with a small hole that intersects with another hole that goes out to the bearing surface of the axle. To lubricate it, you can either use oil or grease. If you do decide to use grease, which will work out just fine, just go down to the auto parts store and buy a grease needle to put the grease into the hole with. That, to me, is a much better solution than having to put a grease zerk out underneath somewhere and having to figure out how to get your grease gun on it, or having it right out there on the end where you can see it if you don't want it there.

As to hardening the axles... I would buy a grade of hardenable steel that can be heated and quenched in your shop. They make grades like this, and although they are tougher to machine initially, you can get some good results. When you are done with the machining and the quench, then polish them with them running between the centers using some fine emory cloth. Make sure that your bearings will slide up on there easily, and turn them by hand and make sure you don't feel any rough spots or anything like that.

I harden my axles and stuff like that in a big furnace. I work for a company that does some types of heat treatment, and so I utilize that when necessary. I usually make all of my surfaces about 0.008" to 0.010" oversize and then grind everything to size on a Brown and Sharpe cylindrical grind machine. Again, something that the average person probably doesn't have access to. That doesn't mean that you have to do it this way to do a good job and make it last... I just utilize what I have available to do the best job that I can.

It definitely takes longer to do it this way, but the results will be a truck that is very free rolling and is virtually maintenance free. I don't like having to spend a lot of time oiling things when I'm out at the track, so I've tried to make things where they didn't have to be oiled or lubed as often.

LocoJerome
Posts: 83
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2012 5:30 pm
Location: St. Louis, MO

Re: Building the Frisco 1522

Post by LocoJerome » Tue Jun 16, 2015 11:25 am

I like the grease needle idea. Inconspicuous and accessible. Plus I'm all for low maintenance! There will be enough to keep track of as it is.

You're right in that I don't have access to heat treatment furnace or cylindrical grinder so we'll see what my results will be. I was just going to buy some W1 tool steel so I knew exactliy what I was working with and harden it with oxyacetylene and then temper it. I have a tool post grinder for the lathe so I'm hoping that will work for final sizing and rough polishing. Its all new to me so it will be an adventure I'm sure. I ordered what looks like a nice book on heat treatment so I'll read it over before proceeding. I'm sure experience will be the best teacher but at least the book may give me the knowledge to at least understand what I'm experiencing. :D

On another note, I got my first of many 'darn, I don't have that tool' order which included a 3/8" reamer to finish my the spring seats for the pilot truck. I popped the reamer into the mill and reamed the 3/8" hole with the two spring seats clamped top-to-top in the vise to make perfect half holes. The castings varyied a little in dimensions but I guess they call them rough castings for a reason. In any case, all the machined surfaces are exactly in the right spot so they become the first official completed parts of the locomotive. Now just another bazillion to go!
Attachments
CompletedPilotTruckSpringSeat.jpg
First completed parts!

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Greg_Lewis
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Joined: Wed Jan 15, 2003 2:44 pm
Location: Fresno, CA

Re: Building the Frisco 1522

Post by Greg_Lewis » Tue Jun 16, 2015 12:35 pm

LocoJerome wrote: [snip]

On another note, I got my first of many 'darn, I don't have that tool' order ....
[snip
A basic axiom of machining is that as soon as you place an order for tools or supplies, you'll discover something that should have been on that order. But it will be too late to add to the order and the single item won't make the $25 minimum order.
Greg Lewis, Prop.
Eyeball Engineering — Home of non-interchangeable parts.
Our motto: "That looks about right."
Celebrating 30 years of turning perfectly good metal into bits of useless scrap.

LocoJerome
Posts: 83
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2012 5:30 pm
Location: St. Louis, MO

Re: Building the Frisco 1522

Post by LocoJerome » Tue Jun 16, 2015 12:38 pm

HA! :lol: Oh so true! That completely explains the 4 orders (2 to McMaster, 2 to Enco) this week. At least it makes it fun coming home to see what is on the porch but at some point the wife is going to frown.

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