GS-1 Tender, finishing up the hard way
Moderator: Harold_V
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Re: GS-1 Tender, finishing up the hard way
Hello Donald
Admire the finish of your lots of fine details - and their clever making!
Asteamhead
Admire the finish of your lots of fine details - and their clever making!
Asteamhead
- JBodenmann
- Posts: 3854
- Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2003 1:37 pm
- Location: Tehachapi, California
Re: GS-1 Tender, finishing up the hard way
Donald
I have been following your progress on the tender and I must commend you on your fine workmanship and attention to detail. Truly an exquisite model!
Jack
I have been following your progress on the tender and I must commend you on your fine workmanship and attention to detail. Truly an exquisite model!
Jack
Re: GS-1 Tender, finishing up the hard way
hey guys,
Thanks for the kind words, helps to keep one trying to improve their craft.
Working on the replacement brake and signal lines. The separate line to the tender brake cylinder wasn't included in the original built. It wasn't until the photo's from Ken and the ones I took of the 5021 tender did I notice the omission. In fact the photo's show a number of things missed or completely wrong. For accuracy a new tender would be best, however that will not happen. The existing one will have to do and be made as close to prototype as I can. Even still some compromises are being made either for ease of making the parts or ease of servicing. Also some parts need to be oversize to withstand slightly out of scale operators.
In photo 274 are a couple of modified die holders made for threading the brass pipe, or any other rod for that matter. The die is installed cutting edge facing inwards. The through hole is just large enough to clear the tubing. I made two of these, one with a 3/16" through hole and one with a 1/4" through hole. I use these when a pipe needs bent and then trimmed to length. After bending the pipe cannot be mounted in the lathe so a normal die holder can be used so this is my idea for threading straight. For threading 1/8" dia. rod I made a spacer that fits inside the 1/4" die holder.
Donald
Thanks for the kind words, helps to keep one trying to improve their craft.
Working on the replacement brake and signal lines. The separate line to the tender brake cylinder wasn't included in the original built. It wasn't until the photo's from Ken and the ones I took of the 5021 tender did I notice the omission. In fact the photo's show a number of things missed or completely wrong. For accuracy a new tender would be best, however that will not happen. The existing one will have to do and be made as close to prototype as I can. Even still some compromises are being made either for ease of making the parts or ease of servicing. Also some parts need to be oversize to withstand slightly out of scale operators.
In photo 274 are a couple of modified die holders made for threading the brass pipe, or any other rod for that matter. The die is installed cutting edge facing inwards. The through hole is just large enough to clear the tubing. I made two of these, one with a 3/16" through hole and one with a 1/4" through hole. I use these when a pipe needs bent and then trimmed to length. After bending the pipe cannot be mounted in the lathe so a normal die holder can be used so this is my idea for threading straight. For threading 1/8" dia. rod I made a spacer that fits inside the 1/4" die holder.
Donald
- Attachments
Re: GS-1 Tender, finishing up the hard way
Double header today.
Made all but the operating lever for the doodad in the previous post. Made a die to bend the signal line to clear the doodad and in the process of shaping the lines to the rear of the tender.
Tried to find a source for the NEISE bender but had no luck. Attached is a copy of the instruction sheet with the address at time of manufacture. Maybe someone in the area would know if the company even still exists. It is a handy little tool and hopefully the company is still in business or part of a larger conglomerate.
Edit, found a British source for the bender by looking at Google images of benders and then following back to the source page.
http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue ... nd-Bending
It is at the bottom of the page and called a universal bender.
Will update if other sources are found.
Donald
Made all but the operating lever for the doodad in the previous post. Made a die to bend the signal line to clear the doodad and in the process of shaping the lines to the rear of the tender.
Tried to find a source for the NEISE bender but had no luck. Attached is a copy of the instruction sheet with the address at time of manufacture. Maybe someone in the area would know if the company even still exists. It is a handy little tool and hopefully the company is still in business or part of a larger conglomerate.
Edit, found a British source for the bender by looking at Google images of benders and then following back to the source page.
http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue ... nd-Bending
It is at the bottom of the page and called a universal bender.
Will update if other sources are found.
Donald
- Attachments
Re: GS-1 Tender, finishing up the hard way
Hey Donald,
If your little air line object is like the one on my full size maintenance project, its a filter/water separator and the valve is a way to blow it down. There should be a paper strainer inside that acts as a water trap to remove water from the air, letting it collect in the bottom. Every day the locomotive is operated, it is supposed to be opened to drain the water out under pressure and be closed when no more water shows in the escaping air. This is especially important when the air pump has just been turned on, as it is not hot yet. The first bit of air produced will most definitely be wet. One exists somewhere on almost every single locomotive! Sometimes the tender and the locomotive both have one, with the locomotive's being under the cab. Hope this helps!
If your little air line object is like the one on my full size maintenance project, its a filter/water separator and the valve is a way to blow it down. There should be a paper strainer inside that acts as a water trap to remove water from the air, letting it collect in the bottom. Every day the locomotive is operated, it is supposed to be opened to drain the water out under pressure and be closed when no more water shows in the escaping air. This is especially important when the air pump has just been turned on, as it is not hot yet. The first bit of air produced will most definitely be wet. One exists somewhere on almost every single locomotive! Sometimes the tender and the locomotive both have one, with the locomotive's being under the cab. Hope this helps!
3/4" scale LBSC Bantam Cock
3/4" scale B4 project (re-designed LBSC Juliet)
- Stuart T. Harrod -
3/4" scale B4 project (re-designed LBSC Juliet)
- Stuart T. Harrod -
Re: GS-1 Tender, finishing up the hard way
Stuie,
Thanks for the info. Meanwhile, like the dummy I can be, dug out my collection of Locomotive Cyclopedia reprints and low and behold the information needed was there. It is the part called Tender Drain Cup. Granted there was no actual part drawing but the diagram shows the part and gives it a name. The photos and tape measure of the prototype part gave me the needed dimensions to replicate the part. Anyway, hoping this is not a copyright violation, the scan posted is part of the page from one of the Cyclopedias showing the part in question. I guess that one can have so much research material that one forgets to look at it all when obscure devices attract our attention.
Donald
Thanks for the info. Meanwhile, like the dummy I can be, dug out my collection of Locomotive Cyclopedia reprints and low and behold the information needed was there. It is the part called Tender Drain Cup. Granted there was no actual part drawing but the diagram shows the part and gives it a name. The photos and tape measure of the prototype part gave me the needed dimensions to replicate the part. Anyway, hoping this is not a copyright violation, the scan posted is part of the page from one of the Cyclopedias showing the part in question. I guess that one can have so much research material that one forgets to look at it all when obscure devices attract our attention.
Donald
Re: GS-1 Tender, finishing up the hard way
Hey Robert, what's this. And that is how the latest saga in the tender project got started. Robert being, Robert Williams, most noted for his excellent C-30 Caboose threads on this board.
What's this, turned out to be Keeley cans. Apparently used by a lot of railroads they really stick out on the cylindrical and semi-cylindrical tenders. The Espee also hung them under the bodies of their cabooses. Robert wasn't the only expert involved, Espee tender experts, Arnold Menke, Steve Perry and Robert Zenk also became embroiled in the Keeley research. The use of the Keeley's ended around 1946 per photographic evidence. A drawing came to be during the research part so it was time to begin the project.
The main body was a piece of tubing that happened to be the correct diameter for the cans. Made of unmachineabelliun it resisted initial efforts for a decent finish however, I finally managed to find the feed and speed combination that resulted in an acceptable finish. Boring the inside was an exciting process that also finally came out alright. The end caps are from the endless supply of 12L14 drops from the shop my brother works out.
Now the fun parts, the brass strips did not shear well so they were sliced off in the vertical mill using a slitting saw. After some experimenting a die was made that allowed the rings to be formed with the ends bent for the clamping screws. Dies for the wire handles and legs came next. The legs were bent in a 2 stage process. The outlet elbow was brass rod thinned down and bent 90 degrees. All in all it took about 2 months to make three of these. One will go on my tender, one is for the Cab-Forward tender and one for a caboose.
End part one.
Donald
What's this, turned out to be Keeley cans. Apparently used by a lot of railroads they really stick out on the cylindrical and semi-cylindrical tenders. The Espee also hung them under the bodies of their cabooses. Robert wasn't the only expert involved, Espee tender experts, Arnold Menke, Steve Perry and Robert Zenk also became embroiled in the Keeley research. The use of the Keeley's ended around 1946 per photographic evidence. A drawing came to be during the research part so it was time to begin the project.
The main body was a piece of tubing that happened to be the correct diameter for the cans. Made of unmachineabelliun it resisted initial efforts for a decent finish however, I finally managed to find the feed and speed combination that resulted in an acceptable finish. Boring the inside was an exciting process that also finally came out alright. The end caps are from the endless supply of 12L14 drops from the shop my brother works out.
Now the fun parts, the brass strips did not shear well so they were sliced off in the vertical mill using a slitting saw. After some experimenting a die was made that allowed the rings to be formed with the ends bent for the clamping screws. Dies for the wire handles and legs came next. The legs were bent in a 2 stage process. The outlet elbow was brass rod thinned down and bent 90 degrees. All in all it took about 2 months to make three of these. One will go on my tender, one is for the Cab-Forward tender and one for a caboose.
End part one.
Donald
Re: GS-1 Tender, finishing up the hard way
Keeley cans were used to carry water for cooling hot boxes. Looks like they hold around 10 gallons or so. Must have been fun to lug that thing to a hot box.
Donald
Donald
Re: GS-1 Tender, finishing up the hard way
Anybody know the reason why the water journal coolers were called Keelys?
(Hint...has to do with Rule G!!)
Charlie Vlk
(Hint...has to do with Rule G!!)
Charlie Vlk
Re: GS-1 Tender, finishing up the hard way
Hello Charlie, thanks for bringing this up.
After we hear the guesses we can then fill the viewers with the truth behind the Keeley's. I have several stories that have come to light including events resulting in lawsuits against the railroads. Now you experts that already know, let's keep this under our hats and see how this plays out.
Donald
After we hear the guesses we can then fill the viewers with the truth behind the Keeley's. I have several stories that have come to light including events resulting in lawsuits against the railroads. Now you experts that already know, let's keep this under our hats and see how this plays out.
Donald
- neanderman
- Posts: 896
- Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2012 7:15 pm
- Location: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Re: GS-1 Tender, finishing up the hard way
Truly impressive work, all around. From making the dies to all the detail on the tender.
Thanks for sharing.
Thanks for sharing.
Ed
LeBlond Dual Drive, 15x30
US-Burke Millrite MVI
Atlas 618
Files, snips and cold chisels
Proud denizen of the former "Machine Tool Capitol of the World"
LeBlond Dual Drive, 15x30
US-Burke Millrite MVI
Atlas 618
Files, snips and cold chisels
Proud denizen of the former "Machine Tool Capitol of the World"
Re: GS-1 Tender, finishing up the hard way
Based on the weight and bulk of a Keely can, I suspect it was set off the engine or caboose when the need came up. The crew then either shoved back or pulled the train forward to bring the offending journal to the can where it only had to be set into position and the carry issue was not a problem.
Even in the days of roller bearing trains and broken knuckles, we seldom carried a knuckle any distance. We always let the motive power do the work. One time the broken knuckle was on the caboose side of the train. We just pushed the replacement knuckle off the locomotive and pulled forward until the last car was next to the fresh knuckle. Loaded it on the drawbar and shoved back to the offending drawhead to install the knuckle. A simple shove the last couple of car lengths put the train back together and off we went with no muscle strains. The power of EMD did the hard work for us. With the shorter trains of times gone by, installing a Keely should not have been that big a deal.
Even in the days of roller bearing trains and broken knuckles, we seldom carried a knuckle any distance. We always let the motive power do the work. One time the broken knuckle was on the caboose side of the train. We just pushed the replacement knuckle off the locomotive and pulled forward until the last car was next to the fresh knuckle. Loaded it on the drawbar and shoved back to the offending drawhead to install the knuckle. A simple shove the last couple of car lengths put the train back together and off we went with no muscle strains. The power of EMD did the hard work for us. With the shorter trains of times gone by, installing a Keely should not have been that big a deal.