Kombrink's American

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Pipescs
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Re: Kombrink's American

Post by Pipescs » Thu Sep 08, 2016 12:45 pm

Home for a few days and took today and tomorrow off for me to tinker in the shop.

The American is back together and I ran it on an air compressor to test out the crosshead pumps against the boiler pressure. I ran the engine long enough to fill the boiler completely with the crossheads and also tested out the hand pump. The New bearings on the main and side rods got a good run in also.

The gland nuts drip some, but I remember from my sail boat days that if the gland was not dripping you were too tight and would burn out the packing sooner.
Charlie Pipes
USMC Retired

Current Projects:

2.5 Baldwin 2-4-2/2-4-4/0-4-4 Conversion (What ever)
Little Engines American Restoration
Bobber Caboose

Glenn Brooks
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Re: Kombrink's American

Post by Glenn Brooks » Thu Sep 08, 2016 11:16 pm

Probably will tighten up when the engine gets up to operating temperature -at least allow you to tweak the compression on the compression nuts.
Moderator - Grand Scale Forum

Motive power : 1902 A.S.Campbell 4-4-0 American - 12 5/8" gauge, 1955 Ottaway 4-4-0 American 12" gauge

Ahaha, Retirement: the good life - drifting endlessly on a Sea of projects....

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Pipescs
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Re: Kombrink's American

Post by Pipescs » Wed Nov 01, 2017 6:11 pm

Having run the American a few times I found myself looking for reasons not to take it back to the track. After letting it sit all summer I have come to the conclusion that my issue with it is the water system.

Every time I have tried to run it there has been an problem with the water. Broken solder joints. Ball valves and leaking pumps.

This last month I started ordering new material to completely go thru the system and redo it.

The major problem seams to hinge on the fact hat everything was soft soldered thirty years ago.

The plan is to go with a new pump in the tender with all new lines to the engine while rebuilding the Cross Head Pumps. These two systems will feed thru the left inlet to the boiler.

The original Steam pump is no longer with us so it will be replaced by a small injector.

All inputs greatly appreciated. Especially from people having small engines with like problems or systems.
Charlie Pipes
USMC Retired

Current Projects:

2.5 Baldwin 2-4-2/2-4-4/0-4-4 Conversion (What ever)
Little Engines American Restoration
Bobber Caboose

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Fender
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Re: Kombrink's American

Post by Fender » Wed Nov 01, 2017 8:39 pm

Not sure what the existing pump looks like, but I have read that with crosshead pumps, the smaller diameter ram should work inside a larger cylinder (with a seal on the outboard end). If the ram and cylinder are about the same diameter, you will get cavitation inside the cylinder when running at speed, because the water can't move fast enough, and the pump therefore becomes ineffective.
Dan Watson

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Pipescs
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Re: Kombrink's American

Post by Pipescs » Wed Nov 01, 2017 8:48 pm

One thing I do know about the cross head pumps is that when the lines are not coming loose or the packing leaking, they will more than keep up with the water when moving. Scott and I had a couple of good run days where the cross head pumps were all that we really had and it was in by pass more often than not. They will mostly be re packed and get all new ball valves and silver soldered piping.
Charlie Pipes
USMC Retired

Current Projects:

2.5 Baldwin 2-4-2/2-4-4/0-4-4 Conversion (What ever)
Little Engines American Restoration
Bobber Caboose

Berkman
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Re: Kombrink's American

Post by Berkman » Thu Nov 02, 2017 8:47 am

Are the pumps plumbed with a bypass? I'd think crosshead pumps with a bypass system, a handpump then maybe one of Anthony's EE small injectors would be all you need on it.

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Pipescs
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Re: Kombrink's American

Post by Pipescs » Fri Nov 03, 2017 5:04 pm

as it is right now, the hand pump feeds thru the crosshead pumps in a way that will work with the bypass open or closed. The right side of the engine had a steam pump that could never seem to work.

Keeping the crossheads after rebuilding them and putting in the injector and a new hand pump.
Charlie Pipes
USMC Retired

Current Projects:

2.5 Baldwin 2-4-2/2-4-4/0-4-4 Conversion (What ever)
Little Engines American Restoration
Bobber Caboose

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Builder01
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Re: Kombrink's American

Post by Builder01 » Fri Nov 03, 2017 7:53 pm

Piping the hand pump through the axle pump, or, cross head pump, is a way to ensure that you can prime the pump before the loco gets rolling, and you discover that the pumps are not working due to air in the lines! So, you start with the bypass valve open, work the hand pump and witness if there is water coming out the bypass valve. Once you get water to come out of the bypass valve with the hand pump, the cross head pump, or axle pump piping is now clear of air. If you close the bypass valve, the hand pump will now put water into the boiler through the cross head pump, or axle pump.

Piping the hand pump through the cross head pump, is not only a handy way to prime the cross head pump, but eliminates the need for another separate bushing into the boiler for the hand pump.

David

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Pipescs
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Re: Kombrink's American

Post by Pipescs » Sat Nov 04, 2017 8:39 am

Piping the hand pump through the cross head pump, is not only a handy way to prime the cross head pump, but eliminates the need for another separate bushing into the boiler for the hand pump.
Larry had done exactly this. An interesting twist that there is only one pipe/tube from the tender for it. The pipe made a y connection after getting to the engine. The effect was that water going thru the cross head pumps would run in a circle as long as the by pass was open and did not return to the tender. Once the bypass was closed the water would go into the boiler.

The hand pump would put water into the boiler with or without the by pass being closed. And here was one of my problems. If any part of the cross head piping failed at a joint, or the packing blew out (which happened to some extent every time I ran it) the hand pump could not get water to the boiler. With the steam pump being totally a non player, this would shut me down for the day.

My solution involves a set of valves added in a way to be able to by pass the cross-heads completely if there is a problem with them so that I can continue with the hand pump and injector.

Looking at Diane's photos on her thread, I started tearing down the piping on the American. Using the original piping for a fit test I put the injector where she has indicated going.

I had thought I would place it farther aft back by the drivers and a little lower. But this would make it very susceptible to damage.

Looking for advice, pros and cons of where to mount it.
Possible Possition.jpg
Charlie Pipes
USMC Retired

Current Projects:

2.5 Baldwin 2-4-2/2-4-4/0-4-4 Conversion (What ever)
Little Engines American Restoration
Bobber Caboose

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Pipescs
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Re: Kombrink's American

Post by Pipescs » Sat Nov 04, 2017 8:39 am

Opps
Charlie Pipes
USMC Retired

Current Projects:

2.5 Baldwin 2-4-2/2-4-4/0-4-4 Conversion (What ever)
Little Engines American Restoration
Bobber Caboose

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Builder01
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Re: Kombrink's American

Post by Builder01 » Sat Nov 04, 2017 1:19 pm

Getting the injector as low as possible seems like a good thing, but, of course there is the danger of possible damage. Getting the injector lower than the top level of water in the tender allows for the water to immediately flow through the injector and start to cool it if heating is a problem. This would be before the steam valve is turned on. Usually mounting it low and against the frames keeps it pretty safe.

As for the cross head pumps running the water in a circle before the by pass valve is closed, this is certainly a way to do it. The downside is, that you cannot witness if the pump is primed and working before really getting onto the track. Even then, are you really sure what is going on with the cross head pumps?

Before I get my side tanks piped up, I made a temporary dump tank for the axle pump by pass valve to dump into. You can actually see what the axle pump is delivering, or, worse yet, if it is not doing anything at all! In fact, I could tell from the discharge from the by pass valve, that one of my check valves in the axle pump was fouled. When I took it apart, this was exactly what had happened.

I consider being able to witness the discharge from the by pass valve before you get onto the track very valuable. You can evaluate the performance of the cross head pump, and the hand pump before you get into trouble. If the delivery is in a closed loop of pipe, you will never know.

David

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Pipescs
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Re: Kombrink's American

Post by Pipescs » Wed Nov 08, 2017 9:02 pm

Working on different things when I do get in the shop. Mostly brakes on the Rust Bucket. Who in the USA makes a good small valve to put on the tender to control the water for the injector. I would like to mount it on the tender floor up front.
Charlie Pipes
USMC Retired

Current Projects:

2.5 Baldwin 2-4-2/2-4-4/0-4-4 Conversion (What ever)
Little Engines American Restoration
Bobber Caboose

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