Restoring a modified Allen 2-4-0 barn find

Where users can chronicle their builds. Start one thread and continue to add on to it.

Moderators: Harold_V, WJH, hwboivin3

Pontiacguy1
Posts: 1112
Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2012 10:15 am
Location: Tennessee, USA

Re: Restoring a modified Allen 2-4-0 barn find

Post by Pontiacguy1 » Mon Oct 05, 2015 7:43 am

If someone quoted you $100 to $400 just to sandblast a tender tank, then they are trying to rip you off! I took the Allen tender I was working on to a local company and had it blasted for about $50 or so +tax. 2 reasons I did that: (1) so that I can see exactly what I had to work with and how much might need to be replaced (2) to prep the metal for primer, paint and sealers.

User avatar
John_S
Posts: 709
Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2011 8:21 pm
Location: Cumming, GA

Re: Restoring a modified Allen 2-4-0 barn find

Post by John_S » Mon Oct 05, 2015 7:10 pm

Pipescs wrote:Having used up a lot of money on chemical rust removers I eventually went the electrical route.

First of it really works, Works cheaply and every time.
When I built the boiler for my mogul, the seamless pipe I started with was heavily rusted having sat outside for 10+ years. I used the electro method with great results. It's easy and requires almost zero effort.
mogul73.jpg
Removing rust from boiler pipe

User avatar
steamin10
Posts: 6712
Joined: Sun Jun 08, 2003 11:52 pm
Location: NW Indiana. Close to Lake Michigan S. tip

Re: Restoring a modified Allen 2-4-0 barn find

Post by steamin10 » Tue Oct 06, 2015 9:22 am

At the cost of a small pot blaster, and some sand outside by the drive, I cant see 2 - 300 dollars to blast a tender. I would be squeamish about a BIG commercial unit turned loose on such a fragile piece with an unknowing Gorilla getting my pride and joy cleaned. It could be cut to pieces in just seconds, rather than gently coaxed to clean with a toy unit.
Big Dave, former Millwright, Electrician, Environmental conditioning, and back yard Fixxit guy. Now retired, persuing boats, trains, and broken relics.
We have enough youth, how about a fountain of Smart. My computer beat me at chess, but not kickboxing
It is not getting caught in the rain, its learning to dance in it. People saying good morning, should have to prove it.

User avatar
Pipescs
Posts: 1936
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2010 10:16 pm
Location: Lester Alabama

Re: Restoring a modified Allen 2-4-0 barn find

Post by Pipescs » Fri Oct 09, 2015 3:51 pm

I would be squeamish about a BIG commercial unit turned loose on such a fragile piece with an unknowing Gorilla getting my pride and joy cleaned. It could be cut to pieces in just seconds, rather than gently coaxed to clean with a toy unit.
Although we all badmouth Harbor Freight, I bought the little cheep one they have and it worked wonders on the parts of the Rust Bucket. I use it with a small stand up compressor that has to catch up from time to time as it uses more air than it can pump continuously.
Charlie Pipes
USMC Retired

Current Projects:

2.5 Baldwin 2-4-2/2-4-4/0-4-4 Conversion (What ever)
Little Engines American Restoration
Bobber Caboose

Cary Stewart
Posts: 542
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 5:54 pm

Re: Restoring a modified Allen 2-4-0 barn find

Post by Cary Stewart » Sat Oct 10, 2015 6:55 pm

Hello,
If you are still thinking about sand blasting here is a company near you that has done work for some fellows I know who are building/maintaining 7 1/2" gage live steamers and are also building things in support of the V&T No. 1, Lion loco project. This is a full size replica. The company is:
AZUSA REFINISHING, Phone: 626-334-1516 They are in the San Gabriel Valley area.
Good Luck, Cary

DJSteamer3017
Posts: 264
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2011 2:07 am
Location: Downey, CA

Re: Restoring a modified Allen 2-4-0 barn find

Post by DJSteamer3017 » Sat Oct 10, 2015 11:24 pm

The 2-4-0 in the Pic Below and the one you are restoring are one and the same. Keep on Steamin' My Friend.

David
Attachments
image.jpeg
The 1" Scale Junkie ... But steam of all sizes is cool with me!!
"If you can dream it, you can do it" - Walt Disney

tyleire
Posts: 58
Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2015 3:18 pm
Location: North Hollywood, CA

Re: Restoring a modified Allen 2-4-0 barn find

Post by tyleire » Sun Oct 11, 2015 2:25 pm

I followed Pontiacguy1's suggestion and managed to disassemble the tender as much as I could. Because the first test went so well and the tank was now disassembled, I went down to Smart and Final and picked up 8 gallons of vinegar. The employee at the checkout stand asked me why I like vinegar so much. I told him it wasn't for eating, I was using it to remove rust from an old engine. He looked at me for a moment, then down at the vinegar, "I would say you're completely out of your mind but I would get in trouble."

The cardboard box the hydraulic lift from Harbor Freight came in fit the tender parts perfectly. I lined it with visqueen (painters plastic) then added bricks around the edges of the tank to fill the water level. The next day it came out looking great for about 10 minutes until flash rust began to appear. That wouldn't do, I went back to Google. The internet mentioned vinegar's acidic properties cause the flash rust and baking soda would balance the pH levels. So back in the vinegar the tank went and 24 hrs later I pulled it out and scrubbed it down with baking soda, hosed it down and immediately dried it off. Worked like a charm though there are a few hard to reach areas where I couldn't scrub with baking soda that flash rusted a bit. I can see why people prefer media blasting.
20151011_074233.jpg
Yes after about a week it started leaking
20151011_110956.jpg
After vinegar/baking soda treatment
The rust ate through a small area. I'm deciding whether to rivet a plate over it as makinsmoke suggested or just try to fill it with auto body putty and hope the truckbed liner material reinforces it a little more.
20151011_111020.jpg
Now I need to figure out how to attach the base back to the tank walls and build an interior frame to support weight..

tyleire
Posts: 58
Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2015 3:18 pm
Location: North Hollywood, CA

Re: Restoring a modified Allen 2-4-0 barn find

Post by tyleire » Sun Oct 11, 2015 3:03 pm

Took the engine down to LALS for a much anticipated boiler inspection yesterday. Those who mentioned this was a great traveling engine weren't kidding.
20151009_161839.jpg
Sits snugly in my 2 door Scion
Best news I've heard since buying the little engine: the boiler passed inspection! Boroscope test revealed very little scale on the steel walls and the copper flues look great. I imagine this engine didn't see much use before I found it.

There was however a sizable squawk list: there are plumbing leaks everywhere, the cylinder drain cocks are plugged, the two safeties are off by 25 psi, and the timing is off due to some rods completely loose. They suggested since the boiler jacket needs replacement, tearing it down and actually removing the boiler for easier access to repair and clean.
20151010_140353.jpg

User avatar
Pipescs
Posts: 1936
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2010 10:16 pm
Location: Lester Alabama

Re: Restoring a modified Allen 2-4-0 barn find

Post by Pipescs » Tue Oct 13, 2015 4:30 am

There was however a sizable squawk list: there are plumbing leaks everywhere, the cylinder drain cocks are plugged, the two safeties are off by 25 psi, and the timing is off due to some rods completely loose.
You are a Lucky Duck.....

These are the same problems I had with the American which had been under a set of stairs for 25 years.

I started with cleaning up and sealing the throttle leaks. I ended up buying new safeties. All the other little leaks and issues will work out one at a time. Lots of warm fuzzies in your near future as you clean it up.

I would not get too crazy and tear the whole thing into a pile of parts thinking of doing a total restoration until you get a chance to run it a little with the least amount of work.
Charlie Pipes
USMC Retired

Current Projects:

2.5 Baldwin 2-4-2/2-4-4/0-4-4 Conversion (What ever)
Little Engines American Restoration
Bobber Caboose

User avatar
Pipescs
Posts: 1936
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2010 10:16 pm
Location: Lester Alabama

Re: Restoring a modified Allen 2-4-0 barn find

Post by Pipescs » Wed Oct 14, 2015 3:07 am

The rust ate through a small area. I'm deciding whether to rivet a plate over it as makinsmoke suggested or just try to fill it with auto body putty and hope the truckbed liner material reinforces it a little more.
Just a thought for the forum.

Epoxy resin used in boating is waterproof (Not Polyester Resin).

Does anyone have any experience in lining a tender this way?

Also when doing the tender on the American, I worked with a company called Monsta-Liner (They started in NY and moved to Alabama).

In discussing with them the fact that a tender would always be damp when drained, they recommended their "Frame Saver" coatings over their bed liner products. It is billed as truly water proof and inhibits rust by sealing off the air.
Charlie Pipes
USMC Retired

Current Projects:

2.5 Baldwin 2-4-2/2-4-4/0-4-4 Conversion (What ever)
Little Engines American Restoration
Bobber Caboose

User avatar
cbrew
Posts: 2897
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2003 12:17 pm
Location: Vancouver Wa

Re: Restoring a modified Allen 2-4-0 barn find

Post by cbrew » Wed Oct 14, 2015 1:59 pm

DJSteamer3017 wrote:The 2-4-0 in the Pic Below and the one you are restoring are one and the same. Keep on Steamin' My Friend.

David
I don't believe it is the same engine. look at the details. (cab, domes, etc. )
I know at least two versions of this engine was build, the one pictured here is Arts and my brother and i ran the heck out of it at LALS in the 80's

I looked long and hard at this ad, cause it is was Arts, I would have bought it.
If it is not live steam. its not worth it.

tyleire
Posts: 58
Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2015 3:18 pm
Location: North Hollywood, CA

Re: Restoring a modified Allen 2-4-0 barn find

Post by tyleire » Sat Oct 17, 2015 3:18 pm

cbrew wrote:I don't believe it is the same engine. look at the details. (cab, domes, etc.)
I think you're right. Too many differences between the two.
Pipescs wrote:In discussing with them the fact that a tender would always be damp when drained, they recommended their "Frame Saver" coatings over their bed liner products. It is billed as truly water proof and inhibits rust by sealing off the air.
I checked out the site and couldn't find Frame Saver. Is it a paint you use in lieu of the bed liner? Is this better than the epoxy based primer?
Pipescs wrote:I would not get too crazy and tear the whole thing into a pile of parts thinking of doing a total restoration until you get a chance to run it a little with the least amount of work.
That makes sense. As much as I'd like to fix the cosmetic issues, I really want to get familiar with it's operation first. I'm sure that will help quite a bit when it comes to rebuilding further on down the road, however there is one issue that might possibly require a tear down. During the boiler hydro test the inspector noted the right side valve rod was loose as seen in this video.



Reaching under the boiler, I can feel the rod moving (I'm not sure the name of this rod...Eccentric rod?) inside of the lever connecting to the reverser/crankshaft assembly. The other end of the rod is welded to the lever connecting to the valve rod. There is also what appears to be a cotter pin fused to it as well. I'm stumped on this one. Perhaps they welded the other end too and it came loose? Doesn't help that there isn't much space to really get a good look either.
20151016_110235.jpg
20151017_092035.jpg

Post Reply