Restoring a modified Allen 2-4-0 barn find

[Cary Stewart]

I don't think that there were very many 2-4-0s made from Allen parts. With all the LALS boiler inspection tags I would guess that you have Art Laidlaw's engine. He was a SP loco engineer and lived in Santa Margarita. He had an old Greyhound bus that he and his daughter used to drive down for meets, etc. The engine was small enough that he could get into the step well of the bus and (I think) up into the passenger area on the aisle. How it got to Colorado who knows? He passed away a few decades ago. I think there were several 4-4-0s made from Allen's castings. The first was for a fellow in the SF Bay area who used to come down to LALS fairly regularly. Charlie something????
Cary

[tyleire]

I would start with the tender.

Good plan. I attempted to open up the steam dome to figure out how it works and see if there was any way I could get a small camera inside before the club performs the boroscope test. Unscrewed the screws, tried to lift it out...nothing budged even the slightest. Tried the sealing nut thinking perhaps it played some part in holding the entire unit down (I couldn't find much info on Allen steam domes on google), didn't budge either. Tried a little more force and the wrench went flying, leaving a nice ugly chip in the nut.

That was enough of that. As much as I'm dying to see inside the boiler, I don't want my ignorance to destroy this engine TOO soon. I'll wait for the guys from the club to help me.
The screws holding the lid of the tender were rusted through and just turned to mush when turned. I Dremeled the heads off and removed the knobs from the valves and hand pump to lift off the cover.

Post apocalyptic tender tank

Well the good news is I found the leak. It's a bit of a mess in there with rust, rotted wood and dried out resin everywhere, and sure enough, the tender sides aren't even secured to the floor. The metal bracing is completely rusted through with daylight clearly showing.

Looking closer, The side walls above the base don't appear to have very deep set rust, however the corner braces look to be made of wood that has completely rotted out and I'm sure the rust behind them is even worse. The whole tank might need to be replaced I guess. LocoParts quoted me $1300 for a new tank kit, though I'm not quite ready to give up yet. I'm going to try to remove the brass fittings and give it a bath in CLR. My welding buddy is stopping by later this week to see if he can come up with some idea to reattach the sides to the base.

Cleaned out but still very rusted

[tyleire]

I remember a 2-4-0 that a guy used to bring out and run at Mid-South all the time, which was based on the Bill Morewood Raritan drawings. It was a decent runner, and they guy really enjoyed it. The man who built it died, and a guy that used to run it with him some and his widow tried to bring it out and run it once. They couldn't get the pumps to work, and loaded it up and took it back home with them. That was 20 or more years ago, and it has never been seen again. Stories like that abound. There are at least a half-dozen or so that I remember that have simply disappeared and never been seen again since the owner died, including the one described above. They're sitting in barns, basements, and garages out there somewhere just waiting for the right person and the right time.

I guess you happened to be the right person at the right time for this little locomotive. Congratulations on your find.

Thanks! Building a live steam locomotive has always been on my bucket list, but restoring this unique little engine has proven to be even more fun than I'd imagined with tracking down it's history and such. I'm having a blast.

[makinsmoke]

Many prototype tenders rotted out in the same place and were
repaired by riveting a plate on the outside at the bottom
to replace the cut out bad metal. I would bet the angle at
the bottom as well as the floor is gone as well. If much of the
side and end sheets are salvageable maybe you can effect
this type of repair. It would be very prototypical.

Wood inside the tender? Weird. Also looks like what appears
to be peeled off coating on the inside, probably to keep
the leaks under control for just a while longer.

Take care,
Brian

[Pontiacguy1]

One thing that I would definitely do is take the tender tank off, take everything out of it, and then take it and have it media blasted so you can see exactly what you have. I did this to a very badly rusted Allen tender tank last year and was able to fix it pretty well.

I had it blasted, then I cut out a couple of badly rusted sections and replaced them. There were a few areas with small pinholes every once in a while, and I left them in place. I then sprayed it inside and out with a 2-part epoxy primer, which will seal and stabilize the metal. After letting that dry for a few days, I roughed everything up on the inside, taped off the upper lip of everything, wiped it down good with a paint prep solution, and then painted the entire inside of the tank with about 2 coats of truck bedliner material. I knew where the pinholes were, and put some tape on the OUTSIDE of the tank to keep the bedliner material from oozing out those holes. I then let it dry for 4 or 5 days before touching it. That stuff will stay somewhat flexible, and will seal all those little holes and such.

I've posted pictures in other places, and if you want more information, PM me. I wasn't thinking that this tender tank could be saved, but the people I was doing the work for wanted me to save it, so I did.

Another thing I did was to put a small indention into the very middle of the tank between the frame bars, and then silver solder a flange on there so that I could put a drain valve right in the center of the tank. With the depression right there in the floor where the valve is, the tank can be completely drained and be dry. That goes an awful long way to helping keep these things from rusting out. Before, it always left about 1/4" or so of water standing in the bottom of the tender.

[tyleire]

Well CLR didn't do much. I suspect it may be due to the fact I didn't have enough of it to keep the rust submerged for a long period however after scrubbing for 2 hours to little avail and emptying a whole bottle, I gave up. I researched a little about electrolysis, vinegar, a stronger commercial alternative to CLR, and sand blasting. I was quoted between $100-400 for sandblasting and with no guarantee the metal could be saved after that investment. Since I had some vinegar at the house, I decided to do a small test with it and the tender lid half submerged in an old oil pan. Worked pretty well so after disassembling the tender tank as much as I can, I may give it shot before sandblasting as vinegar here is inexpensive at $3/gallon.

Half of the tender lid submerged in Vinegar overnight.

While waiting on the vinegar test I cleaned up the engine a bit. It's beginning to give off the appearance it might actually run at some point.

Turns out its painted black - not dust gray

I don't think that there were very many 2-4-0s made from Allen parts. With all the LALS boiler inspection tags I would guess that you have Art Laidlaw's engine. He was a SP loco engineer and lived in Santa Margarita. He had an old Greyhound bus that he and his daughter used to drive down for meets, etc. The engine was small enough that he could get into the step well of the bus and (I think) up into the passenger area on the aisle. How it got to Colorado who knows? He passed away a few decades ago.

That would be very cool if I did. I read somewhere he passed away in 2012 though?

[Fender]

For rust removal, you might want to try a molasses solution. Although I've never tried it, others swear by it:


This also makes me think it might be a viable method to clean rust from boilers!

[Pipescs]

Having used up a lot of money on chemical rust removers I eventually went the electrical route.

First of it really works, Works cheaply and every time.

Trying to put a link here to the site I used. Not working

Google electronic rust removal or go to

http://www.chaski.org/homemachinist/vie ... 45&t=95721

and go to page three of the thread to see the site I used. It will not cut and paste here.

To whom it may concern. I have had an ongoing problem for over a month with uploading photos. As soon as I try the site logs me out requesting I log back in. it of course has wiped all my text out at that point requiring me to start over. I have tried four times tonight to post this.

[Harlock]

That harbor freight lift cart will be one of the handiest things in your shop for years to come. Congrats in general. I got into it even a little later in life and found it immensely rewarding. Enjoy the journey, take your time and make it shine again. Fortunately you live in an area with a lot of resources, human and otherwise. Network at the clubs and you'll find good people willing to offer advice and help.

[Harold_V]

To whom it may concern. I have had an ongoing problem for over a month with uploading photos. As soon as I try the site logs me out requesting I log back in. it of course has wiped all my text out at that point requiring me to start over. I have tried four times tonight to post this.

Your problem with posting pictures has been reported to administration.

Harold

[Pipescs]

Thanks Harold

[C_Wilkes]

Evapo-Rust works well.
http://www.evapo-rust.com/