2-1/2", 65 ton New Mexico Lumber Co Shay (Lima C/N 1762)

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jamespnelson
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2-1/2", 65 ton New Mexico Lumber Co Shay (Lima C/N 1762)

Post by jamespnelson » Wed Feb 03, 2016 9:55 am

I am slowly (but picking up steam) building the above mentioned Shay in 2-1/2" scale, narrow gauge to run on 7.5" track. I made the wheel patterns and had them cast at a local foundry, and am turning them now. I started with the tender frame, then the left side journal boxes. I'm using John Buckwalter's castings for those. Any observations, suggestions or hints as I progress would be greatly appreciated. I'm not a machinist by trade, but am pretty good with my hands.

Jim
Attachments
IMG_1142.jpg
IMG_1142.jpg (26.37 KiB) Viewed 5543 times
IMG_1114.jpg
Wheel Casting
IMG_1114.jpg (57.69 KiB) Viewed 5543 times
IMG_1154.jpg
Turning a wheel on my Clausing lathe
Project
2-1/2" Scale, Class C 65 Ton Shay

Bits of wisdom:
Ray's Rules of Precision: Measure with micrometer, mark with chalk, cut with axe.
"The art of medicine consists of amusing the patient while nature cures the disease.” ― Voltaire

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jamespnelson
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Re: 2-1/2", 65 ton New Mexico Lumber Co Shay (Lima C/N 1762)

Post by jamespnelson » Wed Feb 03, 2016 10:02 am

Here is the beginning of machining the left side journal on my cheap shameless Smithy mill. I'm rather embarrassed to admit I own it, but the price was very right ($250.00) and came with a bunch of tooling, collets, and good quality measuring tools. I've since replaced the angle iron with a proper webbed angle plate. I've also added DRO to all three axis, which has been a tremendous help.
Attachments
IMG_1417.jpg
Machining the bottom to get a working edge.
IMG_1153.jpg
Left side journals
Project
2-1/2" Scale, Class C 65 Ton Shay

Bits of wisdom:
Ray's Rules of Precision: Measure with micrometer, mark with chalk, cut with axe.
"The art of medicine consists of amusing the patient while nature cures the disease.” ― Voltaire

Pontiacguy1
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Re: 2-1/2", 65 ton New Mexico Lumber Co Shay (Lima C/N 1762)

Post by Pontiacguy1 » Wed Feb 03, 2016 10:16 am

There is no shame in owning whatever it is that you own. Before I had a milling machine, all that I had was a milling attachment in a 9" south bend lathe for doing that kind of work. There was a lot of small work done on that little setup, and you could do it if you were careful, took light cuts, and thought about how to hold it properly.

I can guarantee you that a lot of steam locomotives in the past have been built with far less! In fact, a lot of the old designs for steam locomotives are the way they are so that most of the pieces can be made with a lathe and milling attachment, because back in the 60's, 50's and before, almost nobody had a milling machine in their home shop.

Pontiacguy1
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Re: 2-1/2", 65 ton New Mexico Lumber Co Shay (Lima C/N 1762)

Post by Pontiacguy1 » Wed Feb 03, 2016 10:16 am

There is a lot to be said for the person who does the most with minimal equipment.

Of course, if you can trade up, then do so.

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kenrinc
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Re: 2-1/2", 65 ton New Mexico Lumber Co Shay (Lima C/N 1762)

Post by kenrinc » Wed Feb 03, 2016 11:16 am

I wouldn't be embarrassed at all. I have a similar round column mill and quite frankly, I've dogged the "you know what" out of it for years and I keep doing it every time I enter my shop. It's only when you enter the digital online community that you are told your equipment is no good. What was the famous saying... "I didn't know my equipment sucked until I registered for an online machinist forum?". LOL

Seriously, once you know the capabilities of the machine your able to compensate in every way, as was noted in the post about using a milling attachment. I did the same. I only had a drillpress at first and a box of about 80 old american files given to me by my best friends grandfather. From there I got a 10" lathe and a milling attachment. Made lots of stuff on that combo. I know my machine isn't a "hogger" so I do all my rough machining in a band saw, chop saw or Sawzall. I've gotten used to it and it works for me.

Looks like excellent work so far. Keep it up!

Ken-

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jamespnelson
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Re: 2-1/2", 65 ton New Mexico Lumber Co Shay (Lima C/N 1762)

Post by jamespnelson » Wed Feb 03, 2016 11:50 pm

Thanks for the words of encouragement, gentlemen. I don't work real fast, but think through my processes well and produce he best quality parts I can with what I have. I'm going to build the tender truck first and learn how to best make the parts and put some jigs together to form the bars, then do the other two. Probably build he main frame before the trucks, then tackle the engine.
Project
2-1/2" Scale, Class C 65 Ton Shay

Bits of wisdom:
Ray's Rules of Precision: Measure with micrometer, mark with chalk, cut with axe.
"The art of medicine consists of amusing the patient while nature cures the disease.” ― Voltaire

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steamin10
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Re: 2-1/2", 65 ton New Mexico Lumber Co Shay (Lima C/N 1762)

Post by steamin10 » Tue Feb 16, 2016 5:53 pm

A hammer is not a complex tool, yet it can do many things, and then you learn other tools may serve better. No shame in owning any do-dad that increases your abilities. Fine watches can be made with little more than a jewelers saw and some files, so it is the knowing hands that make the difference.

I have a Mill-drill and a school Rockwell mill. I would like something bigger, but not in the cards yet. The Mill-drill has increment wheels, that do not match the screw pitch. Try that for primitive.
Big Dave, former Millwright, Electrician, Environmental conditioning, and back yard Fixxit guy. Now retired, persuing boats, trains, and broken relics.
We have enough youth, how about a fountain of Smart. My computer beat me at chess, but not kickboxing
It is not getting caught in the rain, its learning to dance in it. People saying good morning, should have to prove it.

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Harlock
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Re: 2-1/2", 65 ton New Mexico Lumber Co Shay (Lima C/N 1762)

Post by Harlock » Wed Feb 24, 2016 10:57 pm

Do you have a picture of the prototype?
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jamespnelson
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Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2015 12:14 pm
Location: Milwaukie, OR

Re: 2-1/2", 65 ton New Mexico Lumber Co Shay (Lima C/N 1762)

Post by jamespnelson » Sat Feb 27, 2016 1:32 pm

I do. Here is the copy from Shaylocomotives.com. I have an 11x14 copy as well, from Martin Hansen in Bend, Oregon.
Attachments
cn-1762.jpg
cn-1762.jpg (22.12 KiB) Viewed 4867 times
Project
2-1/2" Scale, Class C 65 Ton Shay

Bits of wisdom:
Ray's Rules of Precision: Measure with micrometer, mark with chalk, cut with axe.
"The art of medicine consists of amusing the patient while nature cures the disease.” ― Voltaire

User avatar
jamespnelson
Posts: 47
Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2015 12:14 pm
Location: Milwaukie, OR

Re: 2-1/2", 65 ton New Mexico Lumber Co Shay (Lima C/N 1762)

Post by jamespnelson » Sun Feb 28, 2016 4:55 pm

So I've machined the back of my wheels, and left a 50 thousands shoulder for the axle to mate with. I've also turned them down to the rough finish diameter. I'm now set to face to finish thickness, bore the wheel and cut the tread. I've indexed the wheel in the picture to center on the four jaw chuck, as well as squared it from the back. I'm planning to face first, bore, then cut the tread. In reading everyone's posts, people seem to bore, then mount the wheel on a mandrel to cut the tread. I'm not clear on why I would need to do that; seems like an unnecessary step as I have the wheel already centered and square with the back. Any reason I cannot just cut the tread and flange while mounted in this position? Thoughts and input, please.

Jim
Attachments
backof wheel.jpg
Project
2-1/2" Scale, Class C 65 Ton Shay

Bits of wisdom:
Ray's Rules of Precision: Measure with micrometer, mark with chalk, cut with axe.
"The art of medicine consists of amusing the patient while nature cures the disease.” ― Voltaire

Harold_V
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Re: 2-1/2", 65 ton New Mexico Lumber Co Shay (Lima C/N 1762)

Post by Harold_V » Mon Feb 29, 2016 2:48 am

I can't address the question about using a mandrel from the position of one with experience in building an engine, but I sure can from the perspective of a guy who operated machine tools for a living.

You will never achieve a better setup for boring and turning than you have right now, as the tread and axle bore, if you do your work properly, will be dead concentric and perpendicular, as they should be. I can see no advantage to turning the tread using a mandrel, but I can see a couple disadvantages, one being chatter, the other the inability to take a serious cut.

I have no idea why folks might think they must turn a tread using a mandrel, although they may not have a design of wheel that permits chucking, leaving them without that capability.

Go with your thoughts.

Harold
Wise people talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to say something.

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Dick_Morris
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Re: 2-1/2", 65 ton New Mexico Lumber Co Shay (Lima C/N 1762)

Post by Dick_Morris » Mon Feb 29, 2016 4:21 am

When holding it from inside of the rim that looks like a good way to do it. When I used a mandrel, holding in a chuck could only be done on the OD so a mandrel was necessary to be able to machine the OD.

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