2-1/2", 65 ton New Mexico Lumber Co Shay (Lima C/N 1762)

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jamespnelson
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Location: Milwaukie, OR

Re: 2-1/2", 65 ton New Mexico Lumber Co Shay (Lima C/N 1762)

Post by jamespnelson » Tue Mar 08, 2016 12:13 pm

I'm using indexable TiN coated carbide, TCMT inserts on both my boring bars and turning tools (2 different sizes, obviously). I'm using CM14 (the manufacture's grade) from Cobra Carbide. They recommend them for a variety of material, and I've had good results on both cast iron and steel with them, and are reasonably priced on Amazon. I'm boring at (I think) 282 RPM (belt driven, don't remember off the top of my head the exact speed), which is around 55 FPM on a 0.750 hole. I'm not a production shop, so I think it more than pays for itself to take my time, work at lower speeds and extend tool life. I do general turning at a little higher feed, but I'm definitely a back gear engaged kind of guy.
Project
2-1/2" Scale, Class C 65 Ton Shay

Bits of wisdom:
Ray's Rules of Precision: Measure with micrometer, mark with chalk, cut with axe.
"The art of medicine consists of amusing the patient while nature cures the disease.” ― Voltaire

hwboivin3
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Re: 2-1/2", 65 ton New Mexico Lumber Co Shay (Lima C/N 1762)

Post by hwboivin3 » Tue Mar 08, 2016 5:41 pm

282 is about where I run my lathe at. Turn and facing, I'll drop it down to 174.

I use grade 883 brazed carbide bits from Carbaloy. I haven't had any luck with inserted carbide.

Harold_V
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Re: 2-1/2", 65 ton New Mexico Lumber Co Shay (Lima C/N 1762)

Post by Harold_V » Wed Mar 09, 2016 2:27 am

A great choice for carbide, Harry. 883 is a C2 grade, which I've found to be a perfect match for gray iron (or ductile iron). The only thing I'd suggest is actually running faster, as you should be able to run at least 500 rpm, assuming a 1" bore. If the iron is clean (no sand), you're well within reasonable speed if you do, and tool life should, if anything, improve. Not so if there's inclusions, though.

Harold
Wise people talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to say something.

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jamespnelson
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Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2015 12:14 pm
Location: Milwaukie, OR

Re: 2-1/2", 65 ton New Mexico Lumber Co Shay (Lima C/N 1762)

Post by jamespnelson » Fri Mar 25, 2016 7:39 pm

Finally got back out to the shop after a too long hiatus. First driver done, 11 to go...arghhh
Attachments
IMG_1214.jpg
Project
2-1/2" Scale, Class C 65 Ton Shay

Bits of wisdom:
Ray's Rules of Precision: Measure with micrometer, mark with chalk, cut with axe.
"The art of medicine consists of amusing the patient while nature cures the disease.” ― Voltaire

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jamespnelson
Posts: 47
Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2015 12:14 pm
Location: Milwaukie, OR

Re: 2-1/2", 65 ton New Mexico Lumber Co Shay (Lima C/N 1762)

Post by jamespnelson » Sun Sep 18, 2016 1:24 pm

Been a busy summer with lots of home projects, with a little work in the shop on the side. Finally got all 4 wheels turned, axles turned, rim gears modified and mounted. Purchased dry ice yesterday, cooled the axles overnight, heated the wheels in the BBQ this morning, and pressed them on the axles. Working on the drive side journals now, and hope to start assembling my first truck this week. Hopefully picking up the pace a bit this fall.
Attachments
wheelsets.jpg
Project
2-1/2" Scale, Class C 65 Ton Shay

Bits of wisdom:
Ray's Rules of Precision: Measure with micrometer, mark with chalk, cut with axe.
"The art of medicine consists of amusing the patient while nature cures the disease.” ― Voltaire

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jamespnelson
Posts: 47
Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2015 12:14 pm
Location: Milwaukie, OR

Re: 2-1/2", 65 ton New Mexico Lumber Co Shay (Lima C/N 1762)

Post by jamespnelson » Sat Oct 15, 2016 8:22 pm

Getting lots of shop time now, and making progress. I welded up all the bolsters, ground the filler metal, and drilled all the appropriate holes. I assembled one set of spring planks today, and will start assembling the tender truck tomorrow. I got the rest of the journal castings and columns from John Buckwalter yesterday, and will start on them when I get the truck put together.
Attachments
IMG_1664.jpg
Project
2-1/2" Scale, Class C 65 Ton Shay

Bits of wisdom:
Ray's Rules of Precision: Measure with micrometer, mark with chalk, cut with axe.
"The art of medicine consists of amusing the patient while nature cures the disease.” ― Voltaire

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jamespnelson
Posts: 47
Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2015 12:14 pm
Location: Milwaukie, OR

Re: 2-1/2", 65 ton New Mexico Lumber Co Shay (Lima C/N 1762)

Post by jamespnelson » Sun Oct 16, 2016 9:03 pm

Built the lower end of the tender truck today, and also machined the oilite bearings for the line shaft bearing. That stuff is sure messy to work with. I experimented with bending the arch bars, with little success. I don't have a press, and my "heat and beat" method was sadly inadequate. Anyone have any suggestions on how to best measure and form them?
Attachments
IMG_1666.JPG
Project
2-1/2" Scale, Class C 65 Ton Shay

Bits of wisdom:
Ray's Rules of Precision: Measure with micrometer, mark with chalk, cut with axe.
"The art of medicine consists of amusing the patient while nature cures the disease.” ― Voltaire

Brian Hilgert
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Location: Pittsburgh, PA

Re: 2-1/2", 65 ton New Mexico Lumber Co Shay (Lima C/N 1762)

Post by Brian Hilgert » Mon Oct 17, 2016 8:03 am

If you can find yourself an old heavy duty milling vice, You can try what I did. All my arch bars are cold rolled steel, I did not heat them up. As clumsy as I can be, I didn't want to try bending red hot bars

From my build thread:

For some reason, I hate bending the arch bars.. But they had to be done. I first figured out the flat distances of the bends. Using the digital readout on the mill, I used a center drill and machined a scribe mark at the correct distances. I have an old heavy machining vise that I used to bend the bars. In the vise, there is piece of steel that is used as a point load and on the other side of the bar, a piece of steel with the correct angle machined into it.
IMG_1425.JPG
IMG_1426.JPG
Finished most of the bends, Its starting to look like something!
IMG_1424.JPG

jcbrock
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Re: 2-1/2", 65 ton New Mexico Lumber Co Shay (Lima C/N 1762)

Post by jcbrock » Mon Oct 17, 2016 10:21 am

I tried Brian's method but the crs snapped when bent cold. Heating and bending hot worked. We built a crude jig we could use as a go-no go gauge while making the hot bends. Since then, when bending the running board brackets, I used the method Nelson Riedel describes on his wonderful site, and it worked well with the proviso that I had to spend some time grinding and sanding to clean things up:
http://www.nelsonslocomotive.com/Shay/T ... ingIII.htm

The right answer from a materials standpoint is probably to use hot-rolled, but size and appearance concerns mean most of us end up dealing with this issue.
John Brock

Brian Hilgert
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Location: Pittsburgh, PA

Re: 2-1/2", 65 ton New Mexico Lumber Co Shay (Lima C/N 1762)

Post by Brian Hilgert » Mon Oct 17, 2016 11:28 am

I tried Brian's method but the crs snapped when bent cold. Heating and bending hot worked.
It's funny you mentioned that. when I did my arch bars, I ordered a bunch of CRS 1018 from Speedymetals. I did all of my bends with no problems. That was over a year and a half ago. recently I ordered some CRS from Speedymetals and bend my short side running board brackets. Most of them cracked pretty easy. I just ended up silver soldering the cracks and cleaned them up afterwards. I guess I got lucky with the material for my archbars.

Soot n' Cinders
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Re: 2-1/2", 65 ton New Mexico Lumber Co Shay (Lima C/N 1762)

Post by Soot n' Cinders » Mon Oct 17, 2016 11:43 am

CRS is probably not a good choice for cold bending anyway do to the grain of the metal. The grain in CRS is jumbled up from being rolled cold which makes for a stiffer bar than HRS, but it is more prone to cracking because of the randomized grain. HRS has a roughly uniform grain running the length of the bar, this allows it to bend more than CRS. I made my arch bars from HRS with no issue, cold bending them in the press. I believe most of the reasoning behind using CRS is aesthetic, and after a little bit of paint and some running it will be very hard to tell the difference between CRS bars and HRS bars
-Tristan

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-2.5" scale Class A 20 Ton Shay

jcbrock
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Location: Oregon

Re: 2-1/2", 65 ton New Mexico Lumber Co Shay (Lima C/N 1762)

Post by jcbrock » Mon Oct 17, 2016 11:53 am

HRS is definitely the better deal if you can get it in the right size, especially if you are doing a truck with the brake hanger bends on the end of the bars. I did use it for the crossbraces so I could make the little lip bends over the truck bars more easily.
John Brock

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