2-1/2", 65 ton New Mexico Lumber Co Shay (Lima C/N 1762)

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jamespnelson
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Re: 2-1/2", 65 ton New Mexico Lumber Co Shay (Lima C/N 1762)

Post by jamespnelson » Sun Nov 06, 2016 5:29 pm

Ever have one of those days? I've been experimenting with bending my arch bars. I tried the cut, heat and bend method, with very limited success...managed to break a couple as I adjusted them. I think the metal started to get too cold and brittle. Screw it...headed to Harbor Freight today for a shop press. Found a 20% off coupon. Sure I can use it for other things, and I'm tired of wasting stock. Move on to some thing else; I'll cut the stock for the rollers, and maybe the swivels as well. Well, put the stock the horizontal band saw, turn it on, and halfway through the first cut, the only blade I own for it snaps. Damn, well ordered 2 replacements. I can finish turning the rollers then. I already drilled then, after all. Halfway through the second pass, the sheer pin on my fastidiously maintained, 54 year old Clausing 4900 lathe snaps. WTF? A little disassembly reveals I can slide the lead screw back and forth in the apron, but cannot rotate it. So much for power feed today. I finish turning them to diameter, unchucked the workpiece, cleaned up the shop and called it a day. I'm afraid of touching another piece of machinery today.
Project
2-1/2" Scale, Class C 65 Ton Shay

Bits of wisdom:
Ray's Rules of Precision: Measure with micrometer, mark with chalk, cut with axe.
"The art of medicine consists of amusing the patient while nature cures the disease.” ― Voltaire

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FLSTEAM
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Re: 2-1/2", 65 ton New Mexico Lumber Co Shay (Lima C/N 1762)

Post by FLSTEAM » Sun Nov 06, 2016 7:02 pm

I have the HF shop press but I also have a set of dies for bending that I picked up at my local surplus store.

JB
http://www.ngshay.com/
Shay drawings and castings

Harold_V
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Re: 2-1/2", 65 ton New Mexico Lumber Co Shay (Lima C/N 1762)

Post by Harold_V » Mon Nov 07, 2016 4:07 am

jamespnelson wrote: I tried the cut, heat and bend method, with very limited success...managed to break a couple as I adjusted them.
That's interesting. Mild steel should be able to be bent without breaking, especially if you've used heat to do the majority of the bending. However, if the carbon content is higher, that may not be the case, especially if you've cooled the pieces rapidly after bending. Might not hurt to provide more details of what you've been doing, and make mention of the material you're using.

Harold
Wise people talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to say something.

jeffsmith
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Re: 2-1/2", 65 ton New Mexico Lumber Co Shay (Lima C/N 1762)

Post by jeffsmith » Tue Nov 08, 2016 12:39 pm

I have had the same problem in the past. Ordered 1018 mild steel from McMaster-Carr, who get there materials from many different sources, would snap in half if bent to far. Most of the time I had no problems. I would try a different source for your material.

Jeff Smith

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jamespnelson
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Re: 2-1/2", 65 ton New Mexico Lumber Co Shay (Lima C/N 1762)

Post by jamespnelson » Fri Nov 25, 2016 9:13 pm

I think it turned out to be a combination of things. I had bought some used steel from my usual source, and it seemed to have some odd properties to it. I'm not sure what it was designed for, but I purchased some new .25 x .75 HRS, and it bent beautifully in my new 12 ton HF press. I used the unknown steel of the upper bars that only required a small kick bend, and it worked fine. Working on the lower center plate and the bodies for the side rollers now. I have one line shaft bearing made, and I'll make the other this weekend, as well as the line shaft. I think I'll defer on the brakes until I have the main frame and other two trucks completed.
Attachments
IMG_1705.JPG
Project
2-1/2" Scale, Class C 65 Ton Shay

Bits of wisdom:
Ray's Rules of Precision: Measure with micrometer, mark with chalk, cut with axe.
"The art of medicine consists of amusing the patient while nature cures the disease.” ― Voltaire

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Greg_Lewis
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Re: 2-1/2", 65 ton New Mexico Lumber Co Shay (Lima C/N 1762)

Post by Greg_Lewis » Tue Nov 29, 2016 9:22 pm

One way to get the bends in either CRS or HRS is to make a hacksaw cut a little way through. Make the bends and then silver solder or braze fill the gap. Works great and puts the bend right where you want it.
Greg Lewis, Prop.
Eyeball Engineering — Home of non-interchangeable parts.
Our motto: "That looks about right."
Celebrating 30 years of turning perfectly good metal into bits of useless scrap.

Kimball McGinley
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Re: 2-1/2", 65 ton New Mexico Lumber Co Shay (Lima C/N 1762)

Post by Kimball McGinley » Thu Dec 01, 2016 3:19 pm

Greg: Do you make the cut on the inside or outside of the bend?

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Greg_Lewis
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Re: 2-1/2", 65 ton New Mexico Lumber Co Shay (Lima C/N 1762)

Post by Greg_Lewis » Thu Dec 01, 2016 3:42 pm

Kimball McGinley wrote:Greg: Do you make the cut on the inside or outside of the bend?
Inside. Not quite half-way. But thinking about it, if you want the outside of the bend to be a precise sharp corner, I'd cut there and fill in with something — weld, braze or solder — and then file to a sharp edge.
Greg Lewis, Prop.
Eyeball Engineering — Home of non-interchangeable parts.
Our motto: "That looks about right."
Celebrating 30 years of turning perfectly good metal into bits of useless scrap.

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jamespnelson
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Re: 2-1/2", 65 ton New Mexico Lumber Co Shay (Lima C/N 1762)

Post by jamespnelson » Fri Dec 02, 2016 8:19 pm

The cut and bend method is the first one I tried. I'm convinced the steel I had was some oddball alloy that was brittle and cracked easily when I bent it. As a side note on the cut and bend method, I didn't care for the look of the bends when I did that; they were too sharp, and did not look prototypical. I much prefer the ones I got with the press. They almost match the ones in the drawings I have exactly.
Project
2-1/2" Scale, Class C 65 Ton Shay

Bits of wisdom:
Ray's Rules of Precision: Measure with micrometer, mark with chalk, cut with axe.
"The art of medicine consists of amusing the patient while nature cures the disease.” ― Voltaire

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jamespnelson
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Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2015 12:14 pm
Location: Milwaukie, OR

Re: 2-1/2", 65 ton New Mexico Lumber Co Shay (Lima C/N 1762)

Post by jamespnelson » Thu Feb 16, 2017 8:35 pm

Haven't been in the shop much this winter; been cold, and takes a long time to warm up all the machinery. I've been teaching myself TurboCAD 3D and designing the engine. This Shay used an early engine design that had the cylinders and crosshead guides cast together, then bolted onto a very different style crankcase. As it would be nearly impossible to duplicate the original castings, I took a bit of creative license and am building up the crosshead guides from stock, which I am having CNC plasma cut for duplicity, then going to silver solder the components together. The crankcase is also cut from 0.25 wall angle stock, which bolts directly to the frame. The remainder of the engine (eccentrics, valves & guides, crossheads, etc) are virtually the same as other Shays I've examined. I've included a picture of the prototype (CN 911 at the Northwest Railway Museum) was built with the same plan as CN 1762, as well as my work so far in CAD.
Attachments
IMG_1859.JPG
Engine Assembly.jpg
Project
2-1/2" Scale, Class C 65 Ton Shay

Bits of wisdom:
Ray's Rules of Precision: Measure with micrometer, mark with chalk, cut with axe.
"The art of medicine consists of amusing the patient while nature cures the disease.” ― Voltaire

User avatar
jamespnelson
Posts: 47
Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2015 12:14 pm
Location: Milwaukie, OR

Re: 2-1/2", 65 ton New Mexico Lumber Co Shay (Lima C/N 1762)

Post by jamespnelson » Thu Feb 16, 2017 8:43 pm

I also received in the mail today the remainder of my wheel castings. Our local grey iron foundry closed, leaving me in a bit of a pickle. We have a plethora of foundries here, and not one that does grey iron sand castings anymore. Mr Emanuel King at the Cattail Foundry is THE BOMB! Look at these beauties: perfectly cast, at an almost unbelievable $22.50 ea. plus shipping! Not the quickest turnaround time, but SO worth the wait! He will definitely be getting the rest of my business!
Attachments
IMG_1886.JPG
Project
2-1/2" Scale, Class C 65 Ton Shay

Bits of wisdom:
Ray's Rules of Precision: Measure with micrometer, mark with chalk, cut with axe.
"The art of medicine consists of amusing the patient while nature cures the disease.” ― Voltaire

User avatar
jamespnelson
Posts: 47
Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2015 12:14 pm
Location: Milwaukie, OR

Re: 2-1/2", 65 ton New Mexico Lumber Co Shay (Lima C/N 1762)

Post by jamespnelson » Sun Mar 19, 2017 1:40 pm

Completed the cylinder pattern today. Came out pretty well Here's a few pictures, and off to the foundry tomorrow.
Attachments
IMG_1963.JPG
the plan
IMG_1962.JPG
Glued up master
IMG_1964.JPG
Turning
IMG_1978.JPG
Machining for the steam chest
FullSizeRender.jpg
Finished
Project
2-1/2" Scale, Class C 65 Ton Shay

Bits of wisdom:
Ray's Rules of Precision: Measure with micrometer, mark with chalk, cut with axe.
"The art of medicine consists of amusing the patient while nature cures the disease.” ― Voltaire

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