Rebuild of an Allen Mogul.

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utahwestie
Posts: 73
Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2015 12:55 pm
Location: Salt Lake City, Ut

Re: Rebuild of an Allen Mogul.

Post by utahwestie » Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:33 pm

This sucker got hot!!! With the melting temp of aluminum around 1200oF this is crazy to me...
Attachments
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~Anthony~
~Ex Pat Kiwi now living in Salt Lake City, Utah

Steve Alley
Posts: 213
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2012 12:30 am

Re: Rebuild of an Allen Mogul.

Post by Steve Alley » Fri Feb 16, 2018 10:55 pm

I have seen this once before, Not sure what causes this. Sure one thing over firing the engine. I would like to see the boiler and the mud ring area. I would bet its plug up and very high. Does this fire box have a arch in it. If not I highly recommend it on all engines and all fuels. So will disagree. But what a arch does is gives more time for the fuel to burn in the fire box and not the smoke box. Arches should run from the lower row of tubes and on angle back 2/3 of the fire box and up to 1.000" of the crown sheet. This allows more time for the fuel to burn. Less carbon in the tubes and smoke box. Also check for air leaks around the smoke box. With the front cover off and a piece of paper up against the front opening. Turn the blow on just a little the paper should stick and stay. If there is leaks it won't. Another thing is the mud ring area. We don't want to cook 1.000 above the fire box base. Have tin or sheet metal to protect this area from heat. This stops the cooking and Harding of the solid's. I am sure you going to do a boiler wash. Most people here have there ways to do it. But almost always they never tell you to neutralize the acids use. Good old baking soda. Table spoon to one gal. of water and off to the race's. Good luck and if you have not order a new smoke box in cast iron, well there in stock.

Steve Alley
Allen models.

h2ogasnz
Posts: 63
Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2011 7:43 pm
Location: New Zealand

Re: Rebuild of an Allen Mogul.

Post by h2ogasnz » Sat Feb 17, 2018 4:35 am

I'd think a vacuum leak in the smokebox would do it, I've see full size locos with ash burning red hot in the smokebox because of air leaks and the leak doesn't have to be very big for it to do it. Anyway a air leak and a bit of hard work could have done it after all I think we have all seen photos or videos of engines with the bottom of the smokebox door glowing red after a good work out...

utahwestie
Posts: 73
Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2015 12:55 pm
Location: Salt Lake City, Ut

Re: Rebuild of an Allen Mogul.

Post by utahwestie » Sun May 27, 2018 7:47 am

Hello all,

Prepping the boiler for a sand blast to get it all cleaned up. I've had a couple pf prolific live steamers near me check the insides out, so it's blank all the holes, sand blast and paint.

Wanting to remove/replace this ball valve....any insight into how to remove it? Does this nut(marked with red arrow) hold it all together?

Cheers.
Attachments
IMG_9786.jpg
IMG_9787.jpg
~Anthony~
~Ex Pat Kiwi now living in Salt Lake City, Utah

utahwestie
Posts: 73
Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2015 12:55 pm
Location: Salt Lake City, Ut

Re: Rebuild of an Allen Mogul.

Post by utahwestie » Sun Feb 03, 2019 5:42 pm

After closer inspection and a great conversation with Steve Alley, We have come to the conclusion that this loco of mine, has had a rather hard hit to the fireman's side of the frame. I don't have a pic with me, but there is a large dent in the frame rail. With a basic understanding of physics and the conversation with Steve, we have determined that the engineers side rods and piston tried to keep moving while the loco had its abrupt stop(also breaking the fireman's upper rocker arm) and bending the drive rods. These are a cast bronze. you can see in one of the pictures that the previous owner has tried to braze the upper rocker arm to repair.
With all this in mind,and the sloppy fit of all other parts of the valve gear, I've decide to replace with new casting all rocker,lifter,and reverse arms, along with new link and link blocks and a new water jet frame from Allen Models.

Stay tuned I've already machined all the arms and am now working on the frame.

Cheers
Anthony.
Attachments
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IMG_1630.JPG
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IMG_8438.JPG
~Anthony~
~Ex Pat Kiwi now living in Salt Lake City, Utah

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NP317
Posts: 1799
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2014 2:57 pm
Location: Northern Oregon

Re: Rebuild of an Allen Mogul.

Post by NP317 » Sun Feb 03, 2019 8:57 pm

Good idea for the complete rebuild with the new water jet cut frames.
You will have a superior locomotive when completed.

Is Steve Alley prepared yet to offer parts and prints to change the valve gear to Baker or Walschaerts?
That would be a huge improvement for long term valve accuracy and decreased wear.

Locally we have one Ten Wheeler with Allen Baker valve gear. It runs true and square.
I have the Baker castings and drawings for a possible modification to my Ten Wheeler.
~RN

utahwestie
Posts: 73
Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2015 12:55 pm
Location: Salt Lake City, Ut

Re: Rebuild of an Allen Mogul.

Post by utahwestie » Mon Feb 04, 2019 8:09 am

NP317 wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 8:57 pm
Good idea for the complete rebuild with the new water jet cut frames.
You will have a superior locomotive when completed.

Is Steve Alley prepared yet to offer parts and prints to change the valve gear to Baker or Walschaerts?
That would be a huge improvement for long term valve accuracy and decreased wear.

Locally we have one Ten Wheeler with Allen Baker valve gear. It runs true and square.
I have the Baker castings and drawings for a possible modification to my Ten Wheeler.
~RN
RN,
I’ve been thinking the same thing about the baker valve gear. I was even planning on chatting to Steve later I the week about this. It would make a nice “update” combine the Baker valve gear and the tender trucks from the consolidation.

Food for thought.
~Anthony~
~Ex Pat Kiwi now living in Salt Lake City, Utah

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cbrew
Posts: 2809
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2003 12:17 pm
Location: Vancouver Wa

Re: Rebuild of an Allen Mogul.

Post by cbrew » Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:45 am

utahwestie wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 8:09 am
NP317 wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 8:57 pm
Good idea for the complete rebuild with the new water jet cut frames.
You will have a superior locomotive when completed.

Is Steve Alley prepared yet to offer parts and prints to change the valve gear to Baker or Walschaerts?
That would be a huge improvement for long term valve accuracy and decreased wear.

Locally we have one Ten Wheeler with Allen Baker valve gear. It runs true and square.
I have the Baker castings and drawings for a possible modification to my Ten Wheeler.
~RN
RN,
I’ve been thinking the same thing about the baker valve gear. I was even planning on chatting to Steve later I the week about this. It would make a nice “update” combine the Baker valve gear and the tender trucks from the consolidation.

Food for thought.
Morning,
I am the "local" that adapted the Allen Baker gear to run on the ten wheeler.
I am not convinced the baker gear will fit the mogul with out moving the main rod to the rear.
i have been told that someone has, but i have not seen it yet.
attached is the profile of my ten wheeler as it was being assembled.
10333759_10152479730143185_8252452787158751747_o.jpg
she had a couple good years running as a ten wheeler. but not that the Allen American chassis was fully rebuilt, she needed her boiler back so the ten wheeler is back in the shop awaiting for a conversion to a early light pacific and a new boiler.
If it is not live steam. its not worth it.

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NP317
Posts: 1799
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2014 2:57 pm
Location: Northern Oregon

Re: Rebuild of an Allen Mogul.

Post by NP317 » Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:59 am

Chris:
Thanks for your info and picture.
~RN

utahwestie
Posts: 73
Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2015 12:55 pm
Location: Salt Lake City, Ut

Re: Rebuild of an Allen Mogul.

Post by utahwestie » Fri Feb 22, 2019 6:26 pm

Things are moving along quite nicely. Many conversations with Mr. Alley over what the best course of action is have helped this project moving forward.
New water jet frame rails are done, I've had them Zinc coated for rust prevention. New cross head yoke casting and draw bar pocket casting were purchased and machined.

Once these were finished, the cylinders where striped and readied for cleaning and inspection. During a trial fitting these cylinders and smoke box saddle things started to act up....... frames were no longer square and to quote Johnny Cash-Psycobilly Cadillac "when we tried to put in the bolts all the holes were gone" once the cylinders were mounted to the smoke box saddle and installed,the bolt holes didn't match the frame rails and where making the frame rails not line up square. (see pic)

Using the measuring machine at the machine shop(day job) I've found that these cylinders are quite a miss match pair, dimensions are off far enough that i'm going to assume without offending anyone I hope that these were machined with the absolute bare minimum to work, and with rudimentary machine and hand tools.

I plan to correct all this and along with new castings for the saddle and apron re make these parts to as close to the prints as possible.
Attachments
IMG_1831.JPG
Mock up with Zinc plated rails and new yoke
IMG_1711.JPG
rail.
IMG_1851.JPG
Offset holes...Dont match new frame rails. :(
IMG_1811.JPG
Old and New.
IMG_1812.JPG
IMG_1829.JPG
Apron. in need of replacement.
~Anthony~
~Ex Pat Kiwi now living in Salt Lake City, Utah

utahwestie
Posts: 73
Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2015 12:55 pm
Location: Salt Lake City, Ut

Re: Rebuild of an Allen Mogul.

Post by utahwestie » Sun Feb 24, 2019 10:03 am

Hello All,

Frame is finished with the three new castings machined and test fit.

Lower frame spreader, modified design from the original to be used with the water jet frame rails.
On to the cylinders.......
Attachments
IMG_1868.JPG
Old frame spreader and New.
IMG_1873.JPG
IMG_1876.JPG
~Anthony~
~Ex Pat Kiwi now living in Salt Lake City, Utah

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SZuiderveen
Posts: 467
Joined: Sun Jan 05, 2003 12:03 am
Location: Baltimore

Re: Rebuild of an Allen Mogul.

Post by SZuiderveen » Sun Feb 24, 2019 10:09 am


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