90-Ton 2-8-2 Build, 1.5"/ft. Scale, 7.5" Gauge

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NP317
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Re: 90-Ton 2-8-2 Build, 1.5"/ft. Scale, 7.5" Gauge

Post by NP317 » Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:12 pm

Detailed Back Head, continued.
Here's the result after all the rivets were installed / represented. The results look pretty good so far.
4-Backhead Cover1 sml.jpg
Now comes detailing. First the fire door.
Using photos and measurements from Rainier #90, I pencil sketched my goal.
Next I cut thin cardboard pieces of the parts, and assembled to verify the design.
All looked good, so I "sculpted" and welded steel sheet into the parts desired, and ended up with the parts shown below.
They look pretty rough, prior to painting.
7-Firedoor Parts1 sml.JPG
Rear sides of the fabricated/welded parts:
8-Firedoor Parts2 sml.JPG
When assembled, the door will open/close and latch, the peep hole cover works, and the damper door works per prototype.
9-Firedoor Assy1 sml.jpg
Here's the unpainted door assembly in place on the detailed back head:
14-Backhead Cover3 sml.jpg
The locomotive is taking on a new persona.

Continued in the next post.
~RN

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NP317
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Re: 90-Ton 2-8-2 Build, 1.5"/ft. Scale, 7.5" Gauge

Post by NP317 » Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:31 pm

Next to make was the oil can tray, above the fire door.

First some notes on scale.
Because the model boiler has the fire opening higher and wider than the prototype, I had to fudge scale a bit.
So the fire door position is higher, and the mounting ring is a little wider than prototype, and the resulting oil pan is also wider.
Sorry, but that's what happens in modeling. If you see the model by itself, such differences are not noticeable.
I can live with the results.

Now, about the oil can tray.
This was used to allow the cans of steam cylinder oil to heat properly, and generally made space for their safe storage.
Food sometimes was cooked there, next to the uninsulated boiler surface. At least my crew did that.
(Cooking note: A 3-pound [weight, not currency] whole salmon foil wrapped will cook there in 26 low-speed miles. We should have made a locomotive cook book!)

So I fabricated the shelf using the 24 gauge steel sheet used for the jacketing. Made three 90 degree brackets from some angle I had, riveted in place. The safety ring around the top is soft soldered in place. I don't expect temperatures to get anywhere near the solder-melting point.
Here's a pic of it sitting on the prototype photo:
10-Oil Tray 1 sml.JPG
Bottom view:
11-Oil Tray 4 sml.JPG
Those three brackets fit over screws mounted thru the back of the copper back head, and then are nutted in position.
Due to the ~15 degree angled back head of both the prototype and my model, I had to angle the mounts for the tray, and also for the fire door.
Fiddly to do, but easy.

The angled shape of the oil can tray acts as a light shield so the Engineer does not get blinded at night when the fireman opens the door, for any reason.
At least that's what I discovered during a decade of operation. I haven't read that anywhere to verify. Anyone?

Once all cleaned and painted, the entire back head assembly begins to look convincing:
15-Backhead Cover Painted 1 sml.jpg
16-Backhead Cover Painted2 sml.jpg
For paint, I used Dupli-Color "Cast Iron" high temperature paint. Pretty close to some prototypes I have seen.

There's more to do, but that's where progress is now.
Hope some of this is useful and fun to see.
More later.
~Russ N

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makinsmoke
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Re: 90-Ton 2-8-2 Build, 1.5"/ft. Scale, 7.5" Gauge

Post by makinsmoke » Thu Jan 18, 2018 8:38 pm

First of all let me make note that you have a Ray Pennell boiler. I knew Ray for a short while. During one of our visits at Mark Bing's track we found he had worked with my father on an offshore rig in Libya in the 60's. At the time he was an underwater oilfield diver. Small world.
He was a stickler in his welding and boiler work.

Second, regarding your backhead work. It is in keeping with the best examples of Jack Bodenmann, whom I am sure provided inspiration. I look forward to following your examples in problem solving on my project soon.

Beautiful work. Congratulations!

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NP317
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Re: 90-Ton 2-8-2 Build, 1.5"/ft. Scale, 7.5" Gauge

Post by NP317 » Thu Jan 18, 2018 9:11 pm

Thank you, Makinsmoke.
Yes, I got one of the last boilers after Ray assed away. I worked with his wife Valeria, who I Thank for her excellent help.
The boiler is sound, and had some modifications I requested. The crown sheet is rather high (built per the drawings), but I suspect it will steam just fine.

I will need to learn to deal with the water level height. I fabricated a bronze baffle plate for the delivery pipe of the steam dome, in the hopes of mitigating possible priming from water "splashing."
Steam dome barrier2 sml.jpg
Anyone have a better idea?
I have seen pictures of fittings on top of the delivery pipe that produces a rotary motion of the steam to centripetally fling water away. But I've not yet decided I need to make such a complex device in miniature. Reducing the physics effects involved might not work. Radius and motion velocity issues. Steaming experience will tell.

Jack Bodermann. Yeh. His work is inspirational to us all. Worthy of making the efforts to approach his craftsmanship level. Someday I might get there...
Jack: Please keep sharing your work with us!
~RussN

Pontiacguy1
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Re: 90-Ton 2-8-2 Build, 1.5"/ft. Scale, 7.5" Gauge

Post by Pontiacguy1 » Fri Jan 19, 2018 8:57 am

Where did you get that little plate that says 'Crown Sheet' ?? That would be a neat little addition for ANY steamer, whether it is super detailed or not. I have a tendency to make a few punch marks along the backhead right where the crown sheet is, just so that whoever plumbs it (if it's not me), inspects it, or just wonders, will know exactly where the crown is in relation to the gauge glass.

Also, Bill Gardei is going to convert his 2-8-2 over to coal fired live steam... As soon as I get his boiler built. I haven't even gotten started on it yet, other than collecting some materials. I've got a lot to do!

Also, I had a locomotive with dual baffle plates in the dome to help keep water from coming up into the dry pipe, but I found it didn't help that much, so I took them out when I had to service it the next time. It had dozens upon dozens of holes, much smaller than in the picture, drilled into a piece of copper and fitted very similar to your picture. The second layer was just a sheet of copper around the bottom of the throttle that made a splash-guard-like apparatus, flanged downward a little around the edges. It went out to within about 1/8" of the edge of the dome, and the two together were supposed to keep any droplets from entering. If you run your water level high, no amount of baffling will help. It can't hurt, though, unless you make it such that it is being a restriction, and from the looks of it you aren't going to do that. I suppose it did do some good, but at the time I didn't think it worth the extra hassle, so I deleted it. May put it back sometime and see how it works again, now that I'm paying more attention to it...

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NP317
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Re: 90-Ton 2-8-2 Build, 1.5"/ft. Scale, 7.5" Gauge

Post by NP317 » Fri Jan 19, 2018 11:39 am

I cannot remember where I acquired the "Crown Sheet" plate. I don't see it offered by any of the suppliers I have bookmarked.
Perhaps Robert Dustin? I don't have his catalog available to peruse. Can anyone help here?

Good to hear that Bill G is looking towards making his 90T 2-8-2 a steamer. Sounds like you have heavy work ahead with his boiler. Git 'er done, as they say.
Hopefully the Teflon piston rings he installed will be up to the ravages of steam. 'Might need to replace them.
I reviewed the IslandPond build blog you posted again and was reminded of several things. Bill mentioned issues with drawings and some design elements that he altered.
I believe I have a newer drawing set because I did not encounter the issues he discussed. Relative to the change in the valve link reverse hanger position and geometry, I investigated that and did see that Baldwin made such changes later, but my locomotive model does not exhibit any of the operational problems that Bill encountered. Hmmm. We'll see over time.

Thanks for your info on the steam baffle plate you made. On mine, I made sure that the openings in the baffle were greater than the cross section area of the delivery pipe.
Experiments.
~RN

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NP317
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Re: 90-Ton 2-8-2 Build, 1.5"/ft. Scale, 7.5" Gauge

Post by NP317 » Fri Jan 19, 2018 11:54 am

Some detail items on the fire door assembly.
The damper position is held by a "quadrant" that holds the handle in position.
Pic below:
Firedoor Assy2 sml.JPG
I made the quadrant by turning a brass ring in the lathe, and cutting it off.
After deburring, I drilled the two mounting holes where desired, and then hand-filed the notches with a small triangular file.
By keeping the ring a full circle, I had plenty of material to grip it while filing.

To hold it steady, I used a wood block with two holes in it, and simply slid two 2-56 bolts thru the ring mount holes, and into the wood block.
No picture, sorry. It was simple to hold the block and ring while filing the notches.
Problem solving.

When all done, I cut the ring segment out and rounded/deburred it all, and then bolted it in place.
I have a deburring wheel mounted on a motor which greatly simplifies all finish work. Have used both Norton and 3M wheels with equal success.
The final adjustment ring looks prototypical, and works as desired.
~RN

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makinsmoke
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Re: 90-Ton 2-8-2 Build, 1.5"/ft. Scale, 7.5" Gauge

Post by makinsmoke » Fri Jan 19, 2018 1:00 pm

Russ,
What is the thickness of the material you used for your door and mounting plate?

And, constantly researching how folks attach things to their boilers....

I see your door plate is bolted to the backhead.
Did you drill all the way through or just deep enough, and are those studs?

Thanks,
Brian

Ps: yes, I know John. He was up at the C&IG
helping out after the meet. Looking forward to his next visit!

Asteamhead
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Re: 90-Ton 2-8-2 Build, 1.5"/ft. Scale, 7.5" Gauge

Post by Asteamhead » Fri Jan 19, 2018 7:52 pm

Russ,
Inspiring work, indeed! Like your backhead of the boiler with those different staybolt cups - and the tool for the making.
Perhaps you may like another idea how to reject water carry over. I installed this simple part into the very flat steam dome of my class 44 built during the 70s /80s of last century :) Idea was to force the steam forced to a 90° radial move into the open throttle. The water won't follow rather spiting against the dome cover and splashing around the dome. The cover plate will not allow the water to drip from above into the throttle. To make sure no water will spit under that cover plate from below, it's diameter is a bit smaller than the throttle's and it got a sharp lip.
This works so well (as intended :idea: ) that you may have a water level well above a full glass at full throttle without carrying water!
Best regards
Asteamhead
Attachments
44 steam dome with throttle and cover plate,red.jpg
Steam can pass from the outside through a radial split
44 steam dome with throttle ,cover plate removed,red.jpg
Steam passes to be seen now. By the way: Working "Wagner" throttle!

little giant
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Re: 90-Ton 2-8-2 Build, 1.5"/ft. Scale, 7.5" Gauge

Post by little giant » Fri Jan 19, 2018 9:01 pm

Asteamhead I thought of a similar design with a reducing pipe (big end up). Do you remember what was the spacing between the bottom of the cover plate to the inlet holes? And did the cover plate sit on the hex head bolts and a boss?

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NP317
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Re: 90-Ton 2-8-2 Build, 1.5"/ft. Scale, 7.5" Gauge

Post by NP317 » Sat Jan 20, 2018 1:12 am

Brian:
I'll repost this as my answer to you disappeared!

"What is the thickness of the material you used for your door and mounting plate"
I used 12 gauge steel sheet, 0.104" thick. This allowed sufficient material in the corner welds to allow grinding the required curves of the door.
The oval base plate is 0.125" thick, to model the full sized plate of 1" thick.

"I see your door plate is bolted to the back-head. Did you drill all the way through or just deep enough, and are those studs?"
All accessories are mounted to the copper back head plate. I drilled / threaded holes in the copper and used 6-32 bolts screwed in from the back.
This left studs available for easy attachment/removal of the fire door ring, the oil can tray, and for the try-cock drain assembly (photos coming), without having to remove the copper back head.

The copper "back head" is attached to the boiler by two bolts near the bottom, and two custom nuts that screw onto the two through stays just above the crown sheet.
The two lower bolts (#8-32) screw into nuts welded to the boiler back head.
This way I had no need to drill into the pressure vessel, which I am loath to do! And I expect those four attachment points to be quite sufficient.

Asteamhead:
Thanks for sharing your dry-pipe baffle idea and photos. I need to study your post more to understand how it works. A side view will help my brain. It's late now and I'm tired.
Better comprehension tomorrow. :oops:
~RN

nabob
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Re: 90-Ton 2-8-2 Build, 1.5"/ft. Scale, 7.5" Gauge

Post by nabob » Sat Jan 20, 2018 1:21 am

IIRC the crown sheet plaque was listed in the Little Engines catalog. I really looks good and is helpful as well. nabob

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