N&W S1a Project - Tender Build
Moderator: Harold_V
Re: N&W S1a Project - Tender Build
Still plodding along. Thought I had better update this thread.
Thanks to the advice above the wheels and axles turned out nicely.
Back to the bogie frames. A small adjustment to the bending jig then onto mass production. Here they are all done. Each one taking about 10 minutes from start to finish.
If you have the bandwidth, this video demonstrates the process.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7xslAkeWYc&t=41s
Axle boxes were next. Again, mass (or at least multiple) production seemed like the way to go.
Material was taken down to size and the mounting holes were drilled and the axle holes bored. The 6” vice allowed for five boxes at once. Perfect for one bogie plus one spare - just in case.
Once both lots were drilled and bored, they were set up to rough out and finish the front faces.
To finish off, we need some angle blocks to cut the front faces.
Thanks to the advice above the wheels and axles turned out nicely.
Back to the bogie frames. A small adjustment to the bending jig then onto mass production. Here they are all done. Each one taking about 10 minutes from start to finish.
If you have the bandwidth, this video demonstrates the process.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7xslAkeWYc&t=41s
Axle boxes were next. Again, mass (or at least multiple) production seemed like the way to go.
Material was taken down to size and the mounting holes were drilled and the axle holes bored. The 6” vice allowed for five boxes at once. Perfect for one bogie plus one spare - just in case.
Once both lots were drilled and bored, they were set up to rough out and finish the front faces.
To finish off, we need some angle blocks to cut the front faces.
Re: N&W S1a Project - Tender Build
Slow progress is better than no progress ...
Here is the latest
A couple of angled v-blocks were made to cut the face for the lift up oil door. Again, doing these in bulk saved a heap of setup time. The sides of the boxes were done in bulk. After separating all the boxes, this setup provided sufficient accuracy. In the absence of any detailed drawings or photos, the design and dimensions are being determined on the fly so there is a fair amount of mocking up to see if it all looks right. This is starting to look the part. Currently working on the bearings and the oil door itself. There are also a few more parts to do for the frames before brazing them all together.
Here is the latest
A couple of angled v-blocks were made to cut the face for the lift up oil door. Again, doing these in bulk saved a heap of setup time. The sides of the boxes were done in bulk. After separating all the boxes, this setup provided sufficient accuracy. In the absence of any detailed drawings or photos, the design and dimensions are being determined on the fly so there is a fair amount of mocking up to see if it all looks right. This is starting to look the part. Currently working on the bearings and the oil door itself. There are also a few more parts to do for the frames before brazing them all together.
Re: N&W S1a Project - Tender Build
Well, my first post in this thread suggested part of its purpose was to keep me motivated to keep going. Not sure that worked. But seeing another USRA 080 being built has certainly inspired me to get a wriggle on … albeit just a little wriggle at this stage.
Bearings were machined and fitted to both the axle and boxes. The wheel sets roll very nicely and the fit to the boxes is quite firm. I may machine a flat in each bearing and add some kind of retainer to keep them from spinning in the boxes but I’m not too sure if that is necessary. Loctite could be another simpler option.
After these were done, there was a lengthy hiatus before the bogie side frames were stuck together. The first two are done and came out reasonably well, although there are a few parts where I found myself saying, “well the originals would have been castings so that’ll be good enough!” I reckon the next two will be better, although only time will tell. By the time they are done, there will probably be little memory of the issues with the first.
The bolster is a three part arrangement. Something I’ll avoid for the second bogie, I think. There are also some pockets in the ends that still need chopping out.
More to follow shortly … springs, retainers and assembly.
Bearings were machined and fitted to both the axle and boxes. The wheel sets roll very nicely and the fit to the boxes is quite firm. I may machine a flat in each bearing and add some kind of retainer to keep them from spinning in the boxes but I’m not too sure if that is necessary. Loctite could be another simpler option.
After these were done, there was a lengthy hiatus before the bogie side frames were stuck together. The first two are done and came out reasonably well, although there are a few parts where I found myself saying, “well the originals would have been castings so that’ll be good enough!” I reckon the next two will be better, although only time will tell. By the time they are done, there will probably be little memory of the issues with the first.
The bolster is a three part arrangement. Something I’ll avoid for the second bogie, I think. There are also some pockets in the ends that still need chopping out.
More to follow shortly … springs, retainers and assembly.
- Greg_Lewis
- Posts: 3016
- Joined: Wed Jan 15, 2003 2:44 pm
- Location: Fresno, CA
Re: N&W S1a Project - Tender Build
A retainer for the axle bearings will let you remove them for maintenance or replacement. Loctite will make that difficult.
Greg Lewis, Prop.
Eyeball Engineering — Home of the dull toolbit.
Our motto: "That looks about right."
Celebrating 35 years of turning perfectly good metal into bits of useless scrap.
Eyeball Engineering — Home of the dull toolbit.
Our motto: "That looks about right."
Celebrating 35 years of turning perfectly good metal into bits of useless scrap.
- Bill Shields
- Posts: 10560
- Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2007 4:57 am
- Location: 39.367, -75.765
- Contact:
Re: N&W S1a Project - Tender Build
Loctite falls apart at 400f -> just toss it in the oven when your wife is not around.
Very nice ..
Very nice ..
Too many things going on to bother listing them.
Re: N&W S1a Project - Tender Build
Greg
Indeed serviceability is ideal. Retainers would certainly provide that.
Bill
I’m new to loctite for this purpose. After heating (with the lasagna while the wife is not looking) would there be much clean up to do before refitting a new bearing?
I usually seem to look for the most complex option but would like to consider loctite.
Cheers
Geof
Indeed serviceability is ideal. Retainers would certainly provide that.
Bill
I’m new to loctite for this purpose. After heating (with the lasagna while the wife is not looking) would there be much clean up to do before refitting a new bearing?
I usually seem to look for the most complex option but would like to consider loctite.
Cheers
Geof
- Bill Shields
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- Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2007 4:57 am
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- Contact:
Re: N&W S1a Project - Tender Build
Nah .just scrape it lightly or sandpaper it off, clean with acetone and good to go
Too many things going on to bother listing them.
- Greg_Lewis
- Posts: 3016
- Joined: Wed Jan 15, 2003 2:44 pm
- Location: Fresno, CA
Re: N&W S1a Project - Tender Build
Geoff:
I’m an advocate for Loctite in the right situations and when the directions are followed. I use it myself for riding car wheels, ball bearings, and other such stuff.
But I would not use it for this. It looks like you have designed the bearings to also help with lateral play in the axles. Thus there is a good chance that dirt could get up in there. Also plain bearings are more likely to wear than sealed ball bearings. If you were using sealed ball bearings I’d say go with the Loctite. With the light stresses in our uses, ball bearings probably would run forever. Not so friction bearings.
And when it is time to service them, do you really want to have to heat the boxes to get them out? A simple setscrew coming up from the bottom will keep the bearings from spinning and will make it far easier to service when the time comes.
I’m an advocate for Loctite in the right situations and when the directions are followed. I use it myself for riding car wheels, ball bearings, and other such stuff.
But I would not use it for this. It looks like you have designed the bearings to also help with lateral play in the axles. Thus there is a good chance that dirt could get up in there. Also plain bearings are more likely to wear than sealed ball bearings. If you were using sealed ball bearings I’d say go with the Loctite. With the light stresses in our uses, ball bearings probably would run forever. Not so friction bearings.
And when it is time to service them, do you really want to have to heat the boxes to get them out? A simple setscrew coming up from the bottom will keep the bearings from spinning and will make it far easier to service when the time comes.
Greg Lewis, Prop.
Eyeball Engineering — Home of the dull toolbit.
Our motto: "That looks about right."
Celebrating 35 years of turning perfectly good metal into bits of useless scrap.
Eyeball Engineering — Home of the dull toolbit.
Our motto: "That looks about right."
Celebrating 35 years of turning perfectly good metal into bits of useless scrap.
Re: N&W S1a Project - Tender Build
Thanks again, gents. Great food for thought.
A set screw from underneath certainly is a simple solution, and easily serviceable. We’ll see how we go once the rest comes together.
Now onto the springs. These were originally leaf springs but I went for coils for the simplicity. I may add some decorative leaf units later … or maybe not.
With no idea how much the tender will weigh (with water and driver), a rough estimate was determined and spring weights calculated. The Spring Store had something that was well within the ball park but shipping across the Pacific was three times the price of the springs.
Plain spring wire is available locally so the next order of the day was turning the springs. Machinery’s Handbook gives a table of arbour sizes but with some interpolation required, this calculator was used to work out how much spring back to expect.
https://www.cgtk.co.uk/metalwork/calculators/spring
It ended up being a fairly small arbour for the 2mm wire, about 8.6mm, which was a little concerning. The spring index came in around 5.5, which suggested there would be some difficulty in their manufacture. Turns out they weren’t too bad and the resultant OD of the spring was just about perfect.
The biggest issue was actually engaging and disengaging the half nut at the right time. There seems to be a fair amount of slack in this so the carriage didn’t always move immediately on engagement. Nonetheless, here are ten springs, six of which should be fine. The other four (on the right below) are a little questionable. Only two of these are required so it’ll just be a matter of picking the best or getting some more spring wire and having another go.
There is also room for a third spring on each corner. I have sourced something locally for this and will add or remove later for some fine tuning - depending on the overall weight the tender ends up being.
Next will be spring retainers and assembly.
A set screw from underneath certainly is a simple solution, and easily serviceable. We’ll see how we go once the rest comes together.
Now onto the springs. These were originally leaf springs but I went for coils for the simplicity. I may add some decorative leaf units later … or maybe not.
With no idea how much the tender will weigh (with water and driver), a rough estimate was determined and spring weights calculated. The Spring Store had something that was well within the ball park but shipping across the Pacific was three times the price of the springs.
Plain spring wire is available locally so the next order of the day was turning the springs. Machinery’s Handbook gives a table of arbour sizes but with some interpolation required, this calculator was used to work out how much spring back to expect.
https://www.cgtk.co.uk/metalwork/calculators/spring
It ended up being a fairly small arbour for the 2mm wire, about 8.6mm, which was a little concerning. The spring index came in around 5.5, which suggested there would be some difficulty in their manufacture. Turns out they weren’t too bad and the resultant OD of the spring was just about perfect.
The biggest issue was actually engaging and disengaging the half nut at the right time. There seems to be a fair amount of slack in this so the carriage didn’t always move immediately on engagement. Nonetheless, here are ten springs, six of which should be fine. The other four (on the right below) are a little questionable. Only two of these are required so it’ll just be a matter of picking the best or getting some more spring wire and having another go.
There is also room for a third spring on each corner. I have sourced something locally for this and will add or remove later for some fine tuning - depending on the overall weight the tender ends up being.
Next will be spring retainers and assembly.
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Re: N&W S1a Project - Tender Build
Make sure to include a flat on your bearings where the setscrew will land. If the setscrew just bears on the bearing OD, it will dig into it, and you will one day really struggle to remove it. What slipped in won't just slip out again! I learned this the hard way...
Re: N&W S1a Project - Tender Build
Yep, that makes sense, thanks. Will do.Kimball McGinley wrote: ↑Mon Nov 06, 2023 10:58 pm Make sure to include a flat on your bearings where the setscrew will land. If the setscrew just bears on the bearing OD, it will dig into it, and you will one day really struggle to remove it. What slipped in won't just slip out again! I learned this the hard way...
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Re: N&W S1a Project - Tender Build
Love those trucks. Side frames look nice.