Tender Rebuild

Where users can chronicle their builds. Start one thread and continue to add on to it.

Moderator: Harold_V

ccvstmr
Posts: 2230
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2003 10:37 am
Location: New Lenox, IL

Tender Rebuild

Post by ccvstmr »

Another Rebuild Subject

Wasn't sure anyone would be interested in a tender rebuild thread. "Discussed" the subject with one of the board moderators and he suggested I proceed with the post. So...here goes another thread regarding an aspect of locomotive rework not often covered here.

Over the years, have posted several threads regarding work on the Rutland 730...a modified Allen Models 10-wheeler. Thought others might learn and/or see things that could help them from my experience. In particular, what it takes to keep the locomotive running. Word to the wise...any time you do work on the locomotive...take photos (new or rebuild locos). LOTS of photos! Used my photo archives as a means to generate a historical timeline of loco work. Those photos have come in handy many times.

At first, thought I hadn't done much work on the locomotive since purchase. The photos told a slightly different story. So before I get into the tender work, here's a bit 'o history of the Rutland:

1995
Feb - Locomotive out-shopped according to the builders plate. Originally built as a coal burner, converted to propane prior to 1999

1999
Nov - Loco purchased

2002
Homemade propane burners replaced with rose bud (slotted cap) burners

2004
Safety valves with chrome plated balls replaced

2005
Boiler steel flues replaced with copper flues

2014
Boiler check valves re-worked
Tender brakes changed from vacuum to straight air
Axle pump rebuilt

2015
Lubricators rebuilt with new one-way clutches (not cheap) and hardened shafts

2016
Steam and sand dome covers rebuilt
Cylinder and steam chest covers plated with a brushed chrome finish in keeping with the stainless steel trim appearance
Driver crank pins replaced
Rod pins and screws replaced
Pilot truck swing center rebuild
Tender axles replaced

2017
Loco vacuum brake cylinder replaced
Steam powered water pump rebuilt

2018
New boiler (and this entailed a lot of other work, much of which was cosmetic in nature)
Throttle valve serviced

2019
Blow down valves rebuilt
Whistle valve and piping upgraded

2020
Tender rebuild
Headlight upgraded

Well, so much for the historical time line. The first aspect that showed up was...as the locomotive got older, more and more work was needed to maintain both the mechanical/operational and the cosmetic appearance of the locomotive. Other than cylinders, pistons and valves, most of the locomotive has received some kind of attention over the years. What a great way to learn about a built-by-other machine. The most involved effort came in 2018 when the original boiler was replaced as a result of a failed crown sheet.

To this date, have no regrets regarding the purchase of the locomotive. If nothing else, this has been a good experience. No only what needs to be done to keep the machine running, but also what NOT to do from a design/build perspective. Need to add, the locomotive wouldn't be where it's at today without the efforts of some other persons involved in the rework along the way. This includes not only fellow live steamers, but several hobby suppliers (thank you one and all!).

Next time, will get into the tender overhaul. Carl B.
Life is like a sewer...what you get out of it depends on what you put into it!
I don't walk on water...I just learned where some of the stepping stones are!
I love mankind...it's some of the people I can't stand!
User avatar
NP317
Posts: 4557
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2014 2:57 pm
Location: Northern Oregon, USA

Re: Tender Rebuild

Post by NP317 »

Looking forward to your rebuild share.
'Should be educational.
RussN
ccvstmr
Posts: 2230
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2003 10:37 am
Location: New Lenox, IL

Re: Tender Rebuild

Post by ccvstmr »

Thanks Russ. Can only say...hold on, could be a wet ride! Carl B.
Life is like a sewer...what you get out of it depends on what you put into it!
I don't walk on water...I just learned where some of the stepping stones are!
I love mankind...it's some of the people I can't stand!
ccvstmr
Posts: 2230
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2003 10:37 am
Location: New Lenox, IL

Re: Tender Rebuild

Post by ccvstmr »

Let's Get Into It

As noted above, the Rutland was (presumed) out-shopped in Feb. 1995. While the locomotive was a modified Allen Models 10-wheeler, from various accounts, the tender (tank) was Railroad Supply Corp. as were the Bettendorf trucks underneath. Should be noted at this point, the tender tank is all fiberglass and appears to have been made by gluing several sections together. Suspect the tender frame was made by the loco builder.

What prompted this work started several years ago. Noticed water weeping under the tank between the tank and frame. Not good! With the loco back on the rails after getting a new boiler, was time to take the tender out of service, find the source of the leak(s), resolve those and take care of other mechanical and cosmetic appearance matters.

Took photos before the tender disassembly was started. Used a lot of plastic sandwich bags to store parts as they were removed. Tried to put a paper label in each bag to identify the contents. Can guarantee, if such a project is going to take several month to complete, you will most likely forget what parts and fasteners go where.

To start the disassembly process, the tender was flipped upside down.

IMG_2466.JPG

The above photo might look a little daunting at first. When you break down the functions for all the lines, it starts to make some degree of sense. There were: (4) water lines, (1) propane line, (1) electrical cable and (2) air brake lines. Make more sense now?

Capturing the "business end" of the tender (front tender pilot beam)...

IMG_2469.JPG

From left to right we have:
- injector water feed line
- air brake reservoir line (grey poly tubing)
- air brake pipe line (black poly tubing)
- electrical cable for loco lighting (grey outer insulation)
{draw bar}
- axle pump bypass return line
- axle pump water feed line
- steam pump water feed line and hand pump delivery (shared line)

There, doesn't seem so complicated now. A close up of the center tender section revealed the following:

IMG_2470.JPG

The first items that pop out are the (2) "T" connectors for the truck air brakes with Clippard quick connectors on the ends. Started using the QC's years ago for all rolling stock having trucks equipped with air brakes. It's easier to unscrew the brake pipe line than to keep cutting the poly tubing. 'Cause no matter how many times you cut that tubing, it doesn't get any longer!

When looking towards the top of the photo, there are (2) water connections with flare fittings. The connecting elbows are anchored in a brass plate embedded in rectangular opening that was cut into the fiberglass tank bottom. A corresponding rectangular opening was cut into the top of the frame deck. There's (1) more water line connection towards the bottom.

The propane line came thru the rear tender pilot beam. Long ago, took a 1/4" npt hex coupling and turned down the OD to minimize the hole needed to pass the plumbing connection thru. Tightening up on both fittings would draw the fittings together. During this rebuild, would use the Permabond LH 050 as a thread sealer.

IMG_3433.JPG

Everything seen in the 1st photo above had to be removed BEFORE the tank could be separated from the frame. There was enough air brake poly tubing slack that those lines could be cut next to the tubing barb...and trim the remaining tubing piece on the barb later. Ty-raps holding the electrical cable were cut so the cable could be removed and saved. A propane torch (and insulation between the water lines and the tender deck) was used to break the water line couplings. As the various pieces of water lines were removed, the tubing ends were labeled to retain the tubing orientation and configuration. The old propane fuel hose line was cut and would later be replaced. That was in service for some 18-20 years. Wasn't worth risking fuel leaks do to cracked tubing.

Will pick up here next time with the tank and frame. Carl B.
Life is like a sewer...what you get out of it depends on what you put into it!
I don't walk on water...I just learned where some of the stepping stones are!
I love mankind...it's some of the people I can't stand!
ccvstmr
Posts: 2230
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2003 10:37 am
Location: New Lenox, IL

Re: Tender Rebuild

Post by ccvstmr »

The Worst was yet to come!

Before getting too far with the dismantle process, was able to hold the camera to get a view facing forward of the fireman's side water leg. Wanted to see the axle pump bypass return stand pipe.

IMG_2972.JPG

Took a little bit of effort, but after several minutes and a few choice words, was able to get a good grab on the fitting (using something with jaw teeth) to loosen the nut under the deck and extract the pipe and fitting. Promised myself, before that stand pipe was reinstalled, I'd make a new bottom flange...perhaps slightly larger in diameter but certainly with a hex to hold that securely while a nut was tightened on the bottom side!

Surprising, there weren't many fasteners used to hold the tank in place. In fact, other than the front apron steps, the few water connections that penetrated the fiberglass tank and deck frame, there were (2) screws that went thru the hand pump base, tank shell bottom and deck frame. That's all that held the tender in place!

When the tank was finally free...there were several "blobs" of some kind of adhesive. Those looked like they had dried out long ago.

IMG_2974.JPG

At this point of the tender rebuild project, moved my base of operation back to my friend Chris's shop where creating dirt/dust is not as critical to the health and well-being of Honest Dave's shop (and myself). And yes, things were about to get dirty...real dirty.

Figured, the bottom of the tank could be cleaned...maybe use a chisel carefully to chip away the dried adhesive. Then go over the bottom of the tank with flap disk to smooth out any remaining adhesive. CAUTION: if I need to go into an attic during the Summer months, will put on a flannel shirt 'cause it takes forever to get rid of that fiberglass "itch". In this case...wore a mask to avoid breathing fiberglass sanding dust.

Looking at the frame deck, saw the results of water damage. NOT GOOD! At no place was the deck rusted thru. However, there was some major rust pitting that had to be addressed. Appeared most of the water damage was around a couple plumbing penetration points. Went over the deck with a knotted wire brush in a side grinder to clean the rust off. Here's the result of several years of water damage.

IMG_3164.JPG

At this point, will re-post one of the photos above of the tender bottom now with the tank penetrations labeled. The rectangular brass plate embedded in the tank bottom can be see towards the top of the tank shell

tender bottom.JPG

And now to match the tank and deck to know what went where including the location where the brass plate set on the deck. Took another photo and labeled the tank penetrations once again.

tender deck top.JPG

With all things tender exposed, it was time to formulate a plan and start the actual rebuild process (next time). Carl B.
Life is like a sewer...what you get out of it depends on what you put into it!
I don't walk on water...I just learned where some of the stepping stones are!
I love mankind...it's some of the people I can't stand!
User avatar
Benjamin Maggi
Posts: 1409
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2007 10:38 pm
Location: Albany, NY

Re: Tender Rebuild

Post by Benjamin Maggi »

This is a fascinating thread. I can't wait to see more! Thanks for taking the time to create such a detailed log of your progress.
"One cannot learn to swim without getting his feet wet." - Benjamin Maggi
- Building: 7.25" gauge "Sweet Pea" named "Catherine"
User avatar
makinsmoke
Posts: 2260
Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2003 12:56 pm
Location: Texas Hill Country

Re: Tender Rebuild

Post by makinsmoke »

Interesting the hand pump is behind the engineer. Most installations I’ve seen, including these RR Supply glass tanks is installed on one of the water legs.

I guess there was no plan to use that pump while drifting around the railroad.
ccvstmr
Posts: 2230
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2003 10:37 am
Location: New Lenox, IL

Re: Tender Rebuild

Post by ccvstmr »

Ben: you're welcome. Stay tuned, there's more to come.

Brian: good observation regarding the hand pump. Sorry, can't answer WHY the pump ended up in the rear section of the tender. Have some thoughts about that as follows: 1) there is a hatch cover over the fireman's side water leg. Don't know if that was original or added. However, I can tell you, there's not much hand room in the water legs to do assembly work or piping connections of any kind. Easy access to the hand pump might have been taken a higher priority, 2) the Rutland has (4) ways to get feed water to the boiler: a) injector, b) axle pump, c) steam pump and d) hand pump. As such, immediate access to the hand pump wasn't really needed. So, left the pump where it was originally located. How's that?

Carl B.
Life is like a sewer...what you get out of it depends on what you put into it!
I don't walk on water...I just learned where some of the stepping stones are!
I love mankind...it's some of the people I can't stand!
ccvstmr
Posts: 2230
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2003 10:37 am
Location: New Lenox, IL

Re: Tender Rebuild

Post by ccvstmr »

Master Blaster Strikes Again

While at Chris's shop, set the tender deck on top of waste barrel outside and sand blasted the frame, top and bottom sides, with silica sand.

IMG_3171.JPG

Chris is the type of friend with too many irons in the fire at any one time. One of his other projects, is converting an old Ford '37 fire engine frame to a pick 'em up truck for hauling supplies. Chris already had some 2-part, fast dry, automotive epoxy primer mixed up in his spray gun. He wanted to use the material up so I let him spray the bottom of the frame.

IMG_3172.JPG

Within 1 hour, the tender frame underside was dry. Flipped the frame right side up and used up what was in the gun on the top deck. Since all of the pitting would be hidden by the tank, decided to pass on filling the pits with Bondo. Instead, Chris applied several coats of primer (to empty the spray gun) and let that fill the low spots as much as possible. When completed, the pitting was somewhat less pronounced.

IMG_3190.JPG

Letting the epoxy primer dry and harden for a couple days, went back and sprayed the underside of the frame with Rustoleum Satin Canyon Black spray paint. This was similar to the locomotive paint work where most things other than the boiler jacket and cylinder covers were painted with satin black.

When the underside paint job was dry, the tender frame was turned right side up and the top deck (like the loco boiler jacket) was sprayed with Rustoleum gloss black epoxy appliance paint. Wanted the top surface as hard as possible...easily. The epoxy coatings seemed to be the better choice and once again, seemed to reduce the appearance of the worst rust pitting.

IMG_3311.JPG

After several more days of drying, went around the tender frame with appropriately sized taps (mostly 5-40) to clean the holes for hardware fasteners.

Next time, will show the how the work on the fiberglass tank progressed. Carl B.
Life is like a sewer...what you get out of it depends on what you put into it!
I don't walk on water...I just learned where some of the stepping stones are!
I love mankind...it's some of the people I can't stand!
ccvstmr
Posts: 2230
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2003 10:37 am
Location: New Lenox, IL

Re: Tender Rebuild

Post by ccvstmr »

Tanks for the Memories

After the tender frame/deck was sand blasted, wanted to strip the fiberglass tank. This to correct years of scratches and other surface blemishes. Wasn't sure if the original builder used automotive paint or other. Decided then to take the "easy-er" path, and sand blast the tank as long as everything was set up and ready to go. What's the worst that could happened? Would have needed a new tank.

The vinyl graphics were removed including the old, vinyl pin stripe. A fingernail got under the vinyl corners to peel the vinyl back. Let's say the vinyl came off relatively easily. Scraping was not necessary. After that, the silica sand blast did a good and quick job of removing the old paint. For some reason, the fiberglass cast-in rivets did not blast completely clean. Not wanting to risk excessive damage, some of the green paint was left on the rivet heads.

When the tank exterior was done, started to blast the tank interior. By the time the Rutland was purchased in 1999, there was already 2 or 3 different coatings applied inside the tender. Was that to cover up old leak problems? Over the years, those layers would chip off. Other steamers wondered why I carried a small fish net in the tender coal bunker. Used the fish net to retrieve the chips of coating or former paint. Once again, did the best I could to blast the tank interior. But a blast nozzle with stiff rubber hose doesn't flex well to clean some of the corners.

When the sand was dumped and vacuumed out or the tank, had a chance to examine the tank. Saw along the fiberglass tank seams, some work was needed to fill the gaps.

IMG_3498.JPG

Choices for the tank section gaps and other blemishes was Bondo. Could have used JB Weld, but unless the repair surface was sitting flat, the JB Weld would run. Minor scratches and final surface finish was filled with automotive body glazing putty...and sanded when dry.

Inside the tank, saw where the brass plate was fiberglassed in for various plumbing connections. This place was approx. 2.5" x 3.5".

IMG_3503.JPG

Decided to add a couple more water ports. Started by drilling/tapping 1/8 npt holes that would be later opened as needed depending on the connection thread size. The pipe ports would eventually be plugged when it was time for a new, interior tank coating. Here's how this look from the tank underside.

IMG_3553.JPG

By this time, the tank seams and other surface imperfections were resolved. It was time to start the tank exterior paint finish. The bottom of the tank was left "natural". The tank exterior top and sides were covered with Rustoleum red primer spray. Other than making a good base for the final paint application, the top tank deck was nothing more than red primer with a satin clear coat. The satin clear coat darkens the red primer and seals the surface at the same time. The next photos show the freshly sprayed tank surfaces.

IMG_3521.JPG
IMG_3524.JPG

Here's a look down the engineer's side water leg. Access for coating application was going to present a challenge. Going in there "blind" with a brush would at best produce a haphazard coating. There had to be another way (and there was).

IMG_3552.JPG

Tank cleaning was done. Nothing left to do now but get some fresh tank sealer on the interior. And that's...where we'll start next time. Carl B.
Life is like a sewer...what you get out of it depends on what you put into it!
I don't walk on water...I just learned where some of the stepping stones are!
I love mankind...it's some of the people I can't stand!
ccvstmr
Posts: 2230
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2003 10:37 am
Location: New Lenox, IL

Re: Tender Rebuild

Post by ccvstmr »

Tank Work Continues

In the last post, had just finished applying primer to the tank top, sides, front and back at friend Chris's shop. Was time to turn my attention to the tank interior. Over the years, there have been several Chaski posts regarding different sealing materials for various kinds of tender construction. For the Rutland fiberglass tender tank, decided turn to "Phil Swift and his line of Flex Seal products". Figured it was worth a try.

I had purchased a small can of gray, brush-on Flex Seal. Wasn't keen on having a white interior where discoloration might become a problem due to different types of waters and/or boiler water treatment chemicals. Still had (1) problem...how to apply the sealer to the inside of the engineer's water leg. Chris said he had 1/2 a spray can of white Flex Seal. Thought that would be the easiest way to apply the sealer in the water leg.

The tank deck was completely masked. Did not want to deal with cleaning up Flex Seal spray mist, paint droplets or other. Tipped the tender tank up on it's nose, and sprayed the white sealer "down" into the water leg. "Orbited" the spray can in an attempt to cover all the surfaces as best as possible. Have to realize, there was no way to see what or how the spray application was going. When the spray can was empty...was able to take the following photo without gumming up the camera.

IMG_3554.JPG

That went pretty good. Where the white Flex Seal ended, was within easy reach of the tender rear area with a hand brush. Holes in the brass plate for various water connections were plugged. These can be seen in the upper left corner of the photo. The hand pump location was outlined with a black Sharpie pen. Looked like the hand pump was originally set in some kind of "potting" material...maybe something like JB Weld. Later on, the indentations left behind by the pump would be used to re-locate the hand pump would be used to return the pump to the exact original position. Thought adding a layer of Flex Seal might affect the dimensions of the pump "seat", but this didn't happen.

IMG_3563.JPG

Grabbed a clean chip brush and used that to spread the grey Flex Seal on the rest of the tank interior surfaces.

IMG_3565.JPG

The brush-on Flex Seal is a thick material. Made sure the material was adequately applied on all surfaces. Had no idea if subsequent brush on coatings would bond to the first coat. Did not want to find myself in a situation where the 2nd layer was peeling at some point in the future. When satisfied with the brush on application...the brush was wrapped and dumped in the trash.

Thought the dried Flex Seal would have been thicker like the brushed on application coating. Seemed to dry thinner. I say this 'cause when the plugs were removed from the brass plate, the layer of sealer on the plugs was like a thin skin. Well, there was no turning back at that point. What was done, was done.

Back at the home shop, the tank cover was cleaned and a fresh coat of red primer was applied. After several days, this too was spray coated with a satin clear spray.

IMG_3610.JPG

Next time, we'll apply some green paint to the tank sides. Carl B.
Life is like a sewer...what you get out of it depends on what you put into it!
I don't walk on water...I just learned where some of the stepping stones are!
I love mankind...it's some of the people I can't stand!
User avatar
NP317
Posts: 4557
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2014 2:57 pm
Location: Northern Oregon, USA

Re: Tender Rebuild

Post by NP317 »

It will be interesting to see how that internal tank seal works.
Looks like a good application.
RussN
Post Reply