Building the 2.5" Scale Shay

Where users can chronicle their builds. Start one thread and continue to add on to it.

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rkcarguy
Posts: 871
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2017 10:33 am

Re: Building the 2.5" Scale Shay

Post by rkcarguy » Tue Aug 28, 2018 10:27 am

Looking good! Can't wait to see it with some fire in it!

Soot n' Cinders
Posts: 709
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2012 5:24 pm
Location: Marietta, Georgia

Re: Building the 2.5" Scale Shay

Post by Soot n' Cinders » Thu Aug 30, 2018 11:15 pm

More work on the shay lately. Got the two missing turret valves from PM Research today so they got put in place. The siphon valve will just be an atmosphere vent for during firing up for now since I dont yet have a siphon. The drifting valve is all plumbed in and is ready to go. Playing with it on air, I think it will do very nicely for warming the engine and moving the shay around the yard light, just like the guys at the Georgetown Loop do with West Side Lumber 9.
I also have a pressure gauge too. Nothing special though, just a $12 gauge from McMaster-Carr. The gauge siphon was a trick to make, took several annealings to get the copper coiled that tight. But using a spring tube bender, I was able to get it bent in shape with minimal distortion.
One thing not pictured is the bottom for the the brake valve. I am making a prototypical valve of my own design based on some Lima drawings. Hopefully it works well since I dont know of anybody who makes a valve for steam on - steam off brakes like the shay has.
014e0b1b90282bb4c0dbda0c82a311c02a45a8300c.jpg
-Tristan

Projects
-2.5" scale Class A 20 Ton Shay

Berkman
Posts: 89
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2017 7:55 pm

Re: Building the 2.5" Scale Shay

Post by Berkman » Fri Aug 31, 2018 8:25 am

looking great! What is the siphon ? Your own design to suck water into the tender? Are the injector valve push/pull?

You could always add a small valve to run steam through a dummy turbo gen to make it blow steam out....!
a 2.5 inch scale airpump would look great on it as would a worthington water pump!

Soot n' Cinders
Posts: 709
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2012 5:24 pm
Location: Marietta, Georgia

Re: Building the 2.5" Scale Shay

Post by Soot n' Cinders » Fri Aug 31, 2018 5:15 pm

Berkman wrote:
Fri Aug 31, 2018 8:25 am
looking great! What is the siphon ? Your own design to suck water into the tender? Are the injector valve push/pull?

You could always add a small valve to run steam through a dummy turbo gen to make it blow steam out....!
a 2.5 inch scale airpump would look great on it as would a worthington water pump!
The siphon basically an ejector but is used to suck water from creeks or ponds into the water tank. Many logging railroads used them since they meant no other water supplies were needed on the woods.
The injector valves are not push-pull. May change that later.
A dynamo and pumps are ideas I have for down the road too. May try to make a working dynamo since 2.5” scale should be a little more forgiving than 1.5”.
Attachments
57501634-E73E-482E-A54D-9EDA7B72E90C.jpeg
-Tristan

Projects
-2.5" scale Class A 20 Ton Shay

Soot n' Cinders
Posts: 709
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2012 5:24 pm
Location: Marietta, Georgia

Re: Building the 2.5" Scale Shay

Post by Soot n' Cinders » Wed Sep 05, 2018 10:57 pm

Well time for another update after several days of work. Finally have the brake valve finished!
brakevalve.JPG
It works just like the full sized ones from Lima, steam on - steam off. I forgot to take pictures of the guts, but its basically a D valve inside pushed back and forth by an eccentric rod.
-Tristan

Projects
-2.5" scale Class A 20 Ton Shay

Soot n' Cinders
Posts: 709
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2012 5:24 pm
Location: Marietta, Georgia

Re: Building the 2.5" Scale Shay

Post by Soot n' Cinders » Mon Sep 24, 2018 5:04 pm

So I know I went silent for a while there but theres a good reason, my shay is now operational!
But before it got there, grates and an ashpan were needed. The ashpan is a typical Lima design with dampers on the front and rear of the pan. Where I deviated was the bottom. The entire bottom of the pan slides out to dump ash and also to remove the grates.
016468f02c0c7812ed491c1e1f36f69a98596c27c4.jpg
ash pan
The grates are regular bar grates made from 3/16"x3/4" hot roll flat bar with 3 3/8" all thread rods between the bars. 3/8" was picked because the 3/8" nuts I had were roughly 5/16" wide which sets the gap I wanted between the grate bars. This seems to be a good spacing as the vast majority of the ash goes in the pan rather than into the smokebox.
014e9531fc86f0bedcc313eabe8d64d02bc96055ca.jpg
grates
With the grates and pan on, it was time for the first fire. But the first couple hours were just boiling water under no pressure to clean the boiler. The boiler was fired with the dome lid off and a gentle wood fire on the grates. The water was kept near the top of the boiler and washing soda was added to raise the pH and help saponify the oils in the boiler. The boil out lasted for about 3.5 hours with water being drawn off, refilled, and over flowed out of the boiler and this took care of a lot of the junk that was going to come out of the new boiler.
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first fire


From there, the boiler was drained and refilled this time adding some LSB8000 and a tablespoon of washing soda to help boost the pH up to 11.
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almost full head of steam
After a couple trips around the yard loop, a train was connected and we headed up the mainline for the first time.
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first train
All went well, but the 1:7 blast nozzle rule proved too small for a shay. More on that in the next post though. The first trips were very successful overall but the boiler began to foam again so the fire was left to die and the boiler allowed to cool to ~15psi and it was then blown down to remove the junk built up in the water. One big note is the shay has quite the appetite on wood, burning roughly half a milk crate of wood to go 2 miles.
01756b17db90af6a8d070902913a0dc999e9f2180f.jpg
first blowdown
-Tristan

Projects
-2.5" scale Class A 20 Ton Shay

Soot n' Cinders
Posts: 709
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2012 5:24 pm
Location: Marietta, Georgia

Re: Building the 2.5" Scale Shay

Post by Soot n' Cinders » Mon Sep 24, 2018 5:32 pm

With the first runs behind her, now its time for the improvements and fixes. A couple of these have already been done and several are planed, feedback is welcomed on all of them!

The first improvement/fix was the brake valve handle. The valve itself works wonderfully, just like the full size ones. But the way the handle was fastened to the stem was found to be lacking. So the stem was threaded further down and the handle is sandwiched between 2 nuts. After some more tightening, the handle has not come loose since.

The second, and biggest improvement was changing the blast nozzle. I started with 9/32, which was found to be too small. The exhaust went from beats to a roar going up grades and back pressure was robbing the engine of power. So I bought a brass pipe plug to play with while the stainless steel one was set aside. I started with 5/16" and stepped up by 1/32" till I went too big. 13/32" was the step too far with the steaming ability reduced to the point the engine exhaust wasnt able to get the boiler over 100 psi without overfiring the boiler. So the stainless nozzle was drilled out to 3/8" and that seems to be the magic size.


Now for some planned improvements.
One thing I need to do is replace the injector suction filters I have. I bought some 40 micron 1/8 NPT inline filters from McMaster-Carr but they seem to choke the flow too much and the injectors get fussy. Im going to look for some Y type strainers to place under the running boards.
The next improvement is possibly making a plate to block off the edges of the grates for burning wood. This idea comes from the Lima Shay manuals. For wood burners they had a set of plates that go around the perimeter of the grates to prevent cold air from being sucked across the sheets. This plate would be removable so coal could be burnt without having to make another set of grates.

Some other fixes are also needed.
The mechanical lubricator has a couple leaks where screws pass into the body, these will be sealed with some red RTV silicon.
Next, one of the gaskets on the steam chest tore while making another repair. The gasket is just cardstock paper soaked in oil. I think I will go back with this material although Im debating on using the red RTV there too.
I also need to get my hands on some more steam oil. The Green Velvet Sapon-A-Max 320 was found to be too light and the cylinders started squeaking even with the lubricator turned up. Some Mobil Super 600 was borrowed and took care of the issue. So I am going to price out that and Green Velvet Sapon-A-Med 680 and compare the two. I also want to get more Green Velvet PB&J 220, Ive been very pleased with how it has done in the bearings and various oilers I have.
And lastly, a bunch of nuts and bolts probably need tightening. The shay has a lot of power and shakes when working hard up grade. Im sure this has vibrated a lot of things loose. So time to get out the brake cleaner and the Loctite.
-Tristan

Projects
-2.5" scale Class A 20 Ton Shay

Glenn Brooks
Posts: 1428
Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2014 1:39 pm
Location: Woodinville, Washington

Re: Building the 2.5" Scale Shay

Post by Glenn Brooks » Mon Sep 24, 2018 10:51 pm

Tristan, Re: water filter for your injectors. I’ve been researching the same thing for my injectors. Here’s an interesting strainer that might work with your Loco. Cheap and looks pretty rugged. There are sold through marine hardware stores. Made by Shurflo.

https://www.fisheriessupply.com/shurflo ... -strainers

And a photo:
10F0AAC8-CCB0-4444-85CE-427B8BD86E1F.jpeg
10F0AAC8-CCB0-4444-85CE-427B8BD86E1F.jpeg (11.47 KiB) Viewed 1327 times
I plan trying it out on my tender. Might be some interest for your build.

Regards,
Glenn
Moderator - Grand Scale Forum

Motive power : 1902 A.S.Campbell 4-4-0 American - 12 5/8" gauge, 1955 Ottaway 4-4-0 American 12" gauge

Ahaha, Retirement: the good life - drifting endlessly on a Sea of projects....

Brian Hilgert
Posts: 235
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:35 am
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

Re: Building the 2.5" Scale Shay

Post by Brian Hilgert » Tue Sep 25, 2018 5:03 pm

Congrats on your first run!!! Sure does sound good!

Your work and success gives me motivation to get back on my shay.

Soot n' Cinders
Posts: 709
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2012 5:24 pm
Location: Marietta, Georgia

Re: Building the 2.5" Scale Shay

Post by Soot n' Cinders » Tue Sep 25, 2018 9:18 pm

Glenn Brooks wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 10:51 pm
Tristan, Re: water filter for your injectors. I’ve been researching the same thing for my injectors. Here’s an interesting strainer that might work with your Loco. Cheap and looks pretty rugged. There are sold through marine hardware stores. Made by Shurflo.

https://www.fisheriessupply.com/shurflo ... -strainers

And a photo:

10F0AAC8-CCB0-4444-85CE-427B8BD86E1F.jpeg

I plan trying it out on my tender. Might be some interest for your build.

Regards,
Glenn
Interesting option! I like the clear caps, can see how much and what kind of junk is in the filter.
Brian Hilgert wrote:
Tue Sep 25, 2018 5:03 pm
Congrats on your first run!!! Sure does sound good!

Your work and success gives me motivation to get back on my shay.

Thanks Brian! Should get back on yours and getting it running. Bring it down here and we could double head, assuming we could find enough cars to pull
-Tristan

Projects
-2.5" scale Class A 20 Ton Shay

Soot n' Cinders
Posts: 709
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2012 5:24 pm
Location: Marietta, Georgia

Re: Building the 2.5" Scale Shay

Post by Soot n' Cinders » Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:30 pm

Well, the shay is home again. Few things to fix, mostly replacing lost hardware though so should be pretty easy to fix. Other thing is some kind of fast acting, turret mount valve for the injectors. Thinking either AMES 5/16 ball valves or taking some PM Research globe valves and converting them to lever actuation. Any thoughts?

The next step is going to be the water tank. Going to stick to John's design but may widen the fuel space a little bit since I dont have the energy density of the diesel fuel he uses. Currently thinking of using stainless steel for the tank so I dont ever have to worry about it rusting. Just not sure yet on how to construct the tank so I am open to suggestions and tips
-Tristan

Projects
-2.5" scale Class A 20 Ton Shay

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FLSTEAM
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Re: Building the 2.5" Scale Shay

Post by FLSTEAM » Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:01 am

Tristan

My injector valves are PM Globe with the threads machined off the stem. The valves are installed opposite of normal steam flow. i.e. the steam holds the valve seat closed. My first valve this way I made a new stem with no threads just in case my design didn't work. But no problem, they work great.

John
http://www.ngshay.com/
Shay drawings and castings

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