Building the 2.5" Scale Shay

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Harlock
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Re: Building the 2.5" Scale Shay

Post by Harlock »

in our experience you don't have to key axles put on with loc-tite. The Chloe's drivers are loc-tite only and have gone for three years now without any issues. Bill Shields has engines that have lasted a lot longer with loc-tite only. Self centering loc-tite for concentric assemblies is designed to work this way and is used in much larger applications than our live steamers.
Live Steam Photography and more - gallery.mikemassee.com
Product Development and E-Commerce, Allen Models of Nevada
Soot n' Cinders
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Re: Building the 2.5" Scale Shay

Post by Soot n' Cinders »

I was going to key the wheels any way. The plans call for it and I've already broached the first two wheels in preparation to be put on a mandrel to finish the turning operations.
-Tristan

Projects
-2.5" scale Class A 20 Ton Shay

Steam Siphon: https://www.shapeways.com/shops/leavitt ... tive-works
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makinsmoke
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Re: Building the 2.5" Scale Shay

Post by makinsmoke »

There is a seller on Ebay selling wipers for Southbend lathes.

I did not remember whether there were wipers in the Grizzly catalog I received.

Brian
kvom
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Re: Building the 2.5" Scale Shay

Post by kvom »

I just took a piece of aluminum rod and machined it to the correct inner spacing length (7.12"). Then used it to ensure that the wheels were the correct distance apart as I inserted them onto the axles. Since you don't have to worry about quartering it's an easy setup.
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Fred_V
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Re: Building the 2.5" Scale Shay

Post by Fred_V »

Soot n' Cinders wrote:
kvom wrote:You may have to order the green loctite from Enco, but check Lowes or HD. It will set on the axles in about 10-15 seconds, so once you put it on make sure to get in the correct position quickly. To remove the wheel, you'll need to heat it and the axle to 500F+, and then press it off.
Thanks for the tip. HD and Lowes only have red and blue loctite. Sounds like it may be a good idea to make a jig to get the wheels in gauge before the loctite sets. I know that, if I machine everything right, I won't need a gauge jig, but I want to be doubly sure that the wheels are in gauge when the loctite sets.
you need a retaining compound not thread locker. there is a HUGE difference. here is some info on it with gaps allowable:

>> The gap fills are all *maximum*. The "optimum" gap is between 0.001" and 0.002" (0.002 to 0.004 diametral) for any of theses adhesives.

Uses:

609: spindle bearings, lip seals, bearing races .005"

620: engine cylinder liners, heat exchanger tubes .015"

635: gears, pulleys, fans, collars, rotors, sprockets, cams and flywheels .010"
to shafts.

640: bushings and sleeves, rotors to shafts .007"

642: bushings in manual transmissions .012"

660: worn shafts, worn housings, worn end bells, bearing spinouts,
wallowed keyways, wallowed splines .020"

675: oil impregnated bushings, drill bushings .005"

680: gears, wheels, pulleys, cams, collars, flywheels, sprockets, and rotors
to shafts, replacement bearings in worn housings or on worn shafts. .015"

I used 680 on my Chloe and it has been run really hard for 18 years with no problems.
good luck,
Fred V
Pensacola, Fl.
Soot n' Cinders
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Re: Building the 2.5" Scale Shay

Post by Soot n' Cinders »

Ok, sounds like I need 680, not 290. How much do I need? Grainger sells it in 5mL, 10mL, and 50mL bottles. How hard is it to undo 680 if I need to get the wheels off the axel for some reason? I can put up to 20 tons on the axel with my shop press, but something tells me that that would create a violent release when the glue finally breaks.
-Tristan

Projects
-2.5" scale Class A 20 Ton Shay

Steam Siphon: https://www.shapeways.com/shops/leavitt ... tive-works
kvom
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Re: Building the 2.5" Scale Shay

Post by kvom »

I used 620 and got a 10ml bottle. You don't need a lot. As I posted before, you need to heat the joint to remove it, the press the axle out. Even after heating with a torch and using my 20-ton press, it still gives a pretty good pop when releasing (My axles are .75"). I suspect that without heating a 20-ton press will break the casting before the axle comes out. The longer it cures that tighter the hold.
Soot n' Cinders
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Re: Building the 2.5" Scale Shay

Post by Soot n' Cinders »

Ok, sounds like a 10mL bottle of 680 will be plenty. Now how would I make sure the wheels are centered on the axel with 680? Or is a couple thousandths of an inch neglegable?
-Tristan

Projects
-2.5" scale Class A 20 Ton Shay

Steam Siphon: https://www.shapeways.com/shops/leavitt ... tive-works
rkepler
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Re: Building the 2.5" Scale Shay

Post by rkepler »

Soot n' Cinders wrote:Ok, sounds like a 10mL bottle of 680 will be plenty. Now how would I make sure the wheels are centered on the axel with 680? Or is a couple thousandths of an inch neglegable?
I've always set my automatic center punch to a lowish setting and stipple the rod a bit. The punch marks raise the metal around the mark a couple thousandths, the automatic punch makes the marks pretty consistent. Goober a bit of the retaining compound (I've always used 609 for this) and they axle should go in with a very light press, something a trifle more than arm strength, usually. Things usually center well and aren't cockeyed after.
Kimball McGinley
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Re: Building the 2.5" Scale Shay

Post by Kimball McGinley »

Best bet is to do one end at a time, with the axle held vertically, so the wheel is horizontal. It should self-center that way. The center punch would work if the wheel feels at all sloppy on the axle.
kvom
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Re: Building the 2.5" Scale Shay

Post by kvom »

Assuming a 6" diameter wheel and .003" diameter slip fit in a .75" axle hole, the outer rim will be out of plump by only .005 at the top. I doubt you'd notice that.
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cbrew
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Re: Building the 2.5" Scale Shay

Post by cbrew »

Soot n' Cinders wrote:Ok, sounds like a 10mL bottle of 680 will be plenty. Now how would I make sure the wheels are centered on the axel with 680? Or is a couple thousandths of an inch neglegable?

IIRC 680 will fill a .015 clearance,
now that is massive amount of clearance, and you also want enough to allow the product to do its job.
on the wheels i "glued", I shot for .004 t0 .005 clearance, I did not have any issues with centering.


the compound expands and self centers as it setups up.
My booster truck is assemblies with 680, mainly to allow for easy disassembly is needed to replace bearings etc.

the parts needs to be clean, void of all oils, etc.
I used acetone and a lent free cloth to clear the bore and axle surfaces, apply a the compound and spin the wheel as i slide it on to the axle allowing for a complete surface coverage. then let them set for a few hours, then repeat with the other wheel.

I hope that helps
Happy building!

BTW i was told to never use the center punch method, just let the compound do its job.
If it is not live steam. its not worth it.
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