Building the 2.5" Scale Shay

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Bill Hanks
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2014 10:43 pm

Re: Building the 2.5" Scale Shay

Post by Bill Hanks » Fri May 31, 2019 6:01 am

I had to prepare the steel boiler of my 0-6-0 tank loco for inspection and recertification. After cleaning it both internally and externally, repainting with high temperature paint, etc, I replaced all the old lagging with two layers of “ceramic paper”. This product is about 3mm thick and can be cut with scissors. I applied the new lagging and secured it in place with string. Whilst at it I also made up new cladding as the old cladding was well rusted. At the first steaming, I noted how quickly full pressure was regained after the safety valves had lifted, then after dropping the fire it took considerably longer to cool down. This is very beneficial after blowing the boiler down and removing one safety valve, the boiler is still quite warm long after all moisture in the boiler has completely evaporated. Out on the track, the boiler is now much more free steaming and consumes less coal. If anything it now has more than enough steam to haul loaded trains. The Shay I’m currently building will get the same lagging. “Ceramic Paper” works for me.

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PeterCraymer
Posts: 183
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2003 6:57 am
Location: Maysville, Ga.

Re: Building the 2.5" Scale Shay

Post by PeterCraymer » Fri May 31, 2019 7:14 am

I also used cork in layers. My jacket is made from sides of old Steelcase office furniture so the gauge is a bit heavier - maybe almost .062. It will take a thread for 4-40 if you dimple it first lightly with a punch. My bell has two 4-40 screws holding it down just to the jacket. The handrails on the other hand are mounted on the rings that support the jacket and give the wagon top look to the boiler. I knew they would take more abuse so they needed to be securely mounted. So far all have worked well. I will add that I attached the steam dome cover with 4-40 screws and after having to remove them multiple times, the threads are about shot, so only for permanent installations would I recommend that method.

Pontiacguy1
Posts: 934
Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2012 10:15 am
Location: Tennessee, USA

Re: Building the 2.5" Scale Shay

Post by Pontiacguy1 » Fri May 31, 2019 7:23 am

I would actually recommend Against using cork for lagging. I've torn down a couple of locomotives that have used that and both of them (a) had the lower part of the jacket rusted out and (b) I had to scrape and wire wheel the cork off of the extremely pitted and corroded outer shell of the boiler. It did in fact hold in the moisture and cause corrosion. Now, these locomotives were "rode hard and put up wet", to borrow a phrase, but still the evidence was clear to me that this was not the optimal setup for longevity, especially if one is not the best at cleaning, storing, and maintaining said equipment. One locomotive was built by Gene Allen and used the cork right under the jacket. Of course, it had been used and abused, then rather neglected, but the entire lower third of the jacket was rusted out very badly and it was all stuck to the boiler shell and had to be physically removed. Maybe it works out OK for most people, but just letting you know what I've found when tearing down an older locomotive with this setup.

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NP317
Posts: 1813
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2014 2:57 pm
Location: Northern Oregon

Re: Building the 2.5" Scale Shay

Post by NP317 » Fri May 31, 2019 11:21 am

Jewelry on my Ten Wheeler was fastened down with fine thread bolts into the jacket and cork!
Strangely, that has worked...so far. Not the preferred method, though.

My Mikado has the jewelry bolted through the jacket into the steel support blocks tack-welded to the boiler exterior.
Much better -and proper- mounting.
~RN

Pontiacguy1
Posts: 934
Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2012 10:15 am
Location: Tennessee, USA

Re: Building the 2.5" Scale Shay

Post by Pontiacguy1 » Fri May 31, 2019 3:52 pm

I usually use 16 gauge steel for the jacket, although it is a little bit harder to work initially, it is a lot less likely to be dented and damaged later on after it is strapped down. Also, like you said, you can directly attach small items to it like conduit clamps inspection covers, etc... Using #2-56 threads or something similar. I will weld a patch piece or spacing loop under where things like handrails, domes, and boiler bands go, so that it will be solid and sturdy. I always figure that someone will mess with it at some point, and I don't want flimsy crap that's going to break off easily.
Take your time when making the poster board template, and it will make the final job a whole lot easier. If you are working with mild steel sheet metal, it's not really that expensive, so if you mess something up just toss it and make that piece of the jacket again. Once you are satisfied with it, then paint it both sides and let it dry for a couple of days before installing it.

Can't wait to see how it turns out!

Soot n' Cinders
Posts: 783
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2012 5:24 pm
Location: Marietta, Georgia

Re: Building the 2.5" Scale Shay

Post by Soot n' Cinders » Mon Jun 03, 2019 2:11 pm

Bill Hanks wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 6:01 am
I had to prepare the steel boiler of my 0-6-0 tank loco for inspection and recertification. After cleaning it both internally and externally, repainting with high temperature paint, etc, I replaced all the old lagging with two layers of “ceramic paper”. This product is about 3mm thick and can be cut with scissors. I applied the new lagging and secured it in place with string. Whilst at it I also made up new cladding as the old cladding was well rusted. At the first steaming, I noted how quickly full pressure was regained after the safety valves had lifted, then after dropping the fire it took considerably longer to cool down. This is very beneficial after blowing the boiler down and removing one safety valve, the boiler is still quite warm long after all moisture in the boiler has completely evaporated. Out on the track, the boiler is now much more free steaming and consumes less coal. If anything it now has more than enough steam to haul loaded trains. The Shay I’m currently building will get the same lagging. “Ceramic Paper” works for me.
Bill, is this similar to the insulation you used? Looks promising to me
https://www.mcmaster.com/9323k21
-Tristan

Projects
-2.5" scale Class A 20 Ton Shay

K. Brouwers
Posts: 34
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 11:57 am
Location: Philippines

Re: Building the 2.5" Scale Shay

Post by K. Brouwers » Mon Jun 03, 2019 7:12 pm

Hello All,
Perhaps a better solution for lagging the boiler would be not to extend the lagging all the way around the bottom leave at least 2 inches of the bottom of the boiler without lagging the entire length then drill a few weep holes in the bottom of the lagging. Any standing water should drain out and the residual heat after shut down might dry out your lagging. Might be worth a try.
Cheers
Karel

Soot n' Cinders
Posts: 783
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2012 5:24 pm
Location: Marietta, Georgia

Re: Building the 2.5" Scale Shay

Post by Soot n' Cinders » Tue Jun 11, 2019 12:03 pm

Insulation finally arrived yesterday and I went after it. Got a 10’ x 16” roll of 1/8” fiberfrax from McMaster-Carr and I’m really pleased with it. Took a little fiddling and adjusting my template to get it all to lay right, and all that’s left is I think I’m going to put a couple of pieces of aluminized tape around it to hold the insulation down so I’m not fighting it when I get the jacket. I’ve already noticed a difference too, I keep a 500W space heater in the firebox to keep the boiler warm and dry and the smokebox temperature rose almost 10 degrees after adding the insulation. I’ll be curious to see how this reflects on coal consumption.
9EDBD1FC-5476-41DD-B05E-4F4B7DE4024B.jpeg
Roll of lagging
734D0D54-909E-4076-BB18-0004050A9B3F.jpeg
Fully lagged boiler
Next I’ll make the poster board template for the jacket before I get a piece of steel cut. I’m thinking of using 18ga galvanized again like I did for the water tank. I’ll scuff the outside with the orbital sander before taking it to the fab shop to be rolled. Then it’s into the paint booth while I work on making the bands.
-Tristan

Projects
-2.5" scale Class A 20 Ton Shay

rkcarguy
Posts: 1167
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2017 10:33 am
Location: Wa State

Re: Building the 2.5" Scale Shay

Post by rkcarguy » Fri Jun 14, 2019 6:08 pm

My workplace has a piping division, and there is a pretty particular method used to wrap pipes that are being buried in the ground that they don't want to rust out or freeze. I've seen it done, and they use some sort of mastic like black goo, cloth, and more goo which provides an insulated waterproof layer over the pipe. I'm not sure about the "ceramic paper", but cork and fiberglass cloth will hold moisture and with the constant heating cooling of the boiler and condensation that creates.

Bill Hanks
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2014 10:43 pm

Re: Building the 2.5" Scale Shay

Post by Bill Hanks » Wed Jul 03, 2019 7:24 am

Soot n' Cinders wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 2:11 pm
Bill Hanks wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 6:01 am
I had to prepare the steel boiler of my 0-6-0 tank loco for inspection and recertification. After cleaning it both internally and externally, repainting with high temperature paint, etc, I replaced all the old lagging with two layers of “ceramic paper”. This product is about 3mm thick and can be cut with scissors. I applied the new lagging and secured it in place with string. Whilst at it I also made up new cladding as the old cladding was well rusted. At the first steaming, I noted how quickly full pressure was regained after the safety valves had lifted, then after dropping the fire it took considerably longer to cool down. This is very beneficial after blowing the boiler down and removing one safety valve, the boiler is still quite warm long after all moisture in the boiler has completely evaporated. Out on the track, the boiler is now much more free steaming and consumes less coal. If anything it now has more than enough steam to haul loaded trains. The Shay I’m ancurrently building will get the same lagging. “Ceramic Paper” works for me.
Bill, is this similar to the insulation you used? Looks promising to me
https://www.mcmaster.com/9323k21
Tristan. I do believe that is much the same product.

Soot n' Cinders
Posts: 783
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2012 5:24 pm
Location: Marietta, Georgia

Re: Building the 2.5" Scale Shay

Post by Soot n' Cinders » Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:40 am

Bill Hanks wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 7:24 am
Soot n' Cinders wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 2:11 pm
Bill Hanks wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 6:01 am
I had to prepare the steel boiler of my 0-6-0 tank loco for inspection and recertification. After cleaning it both internally and externally, repainting with high temperature paint, etc, I replaced all the old lagging with two layers of “ceramic paper”. This product is about 3mm thick and can be cut with scissors. I applied the new lagging and secured it in place with string. Whilst at it I also made up new cladding as the old cladding was well rusted. At the first steaming, I noted how quickly full pressure was regained after the safety valves had lifted, then after dropping the fire it took considerably longer to cool down. This is very beneficial after blowing the boiler down and removing one safety valve, the boiler is still quite warm long after all moisture in the boiler has completely evaporated. Out on the track, the boiler is now much more free steaming and consumes less coal. If anything it now has more than enough steam to haul loaded trains. The Shay I’m ancurrently building will get the same lagging. “Ceramic Paper” works for me.
Bill, is this similar to the insulation you used? Looks promising to me
https://www.mcmaster.com/9323k21
Tristan. I do believe that is much the same product.
I’m pretty impressed with it so far. Was easy to work with and has made a noticeable difference even with my little 500W heater I use to dry out my boiler.
-Tristan

Projects
-2.5" scale Class A 20 Ton Shay

Soot n' Cinders
Posts: 783
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2012 5:24 pm
Location: Marietta, Georgia

Re: Building the 2.5" Scale Shay

Post by Soot n' Cinders » Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:42 am

Lagging and jacket are done for now! Got a few spots to touch up on the jacket paint from reassembly but nothing major or in a very noticeable spot. Now I’m working on ganging the cylinder cocks together. Hopefully can get out and run some soon but with our weather being in the low 90s everyday, it’s not looking promising.
E7876310-C9D8-4E95-A3A4-C20071643A3A.jpeg
-Tristan

Projects
-2.5" scale Class A 20 Ton Shay

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