Welcome to the Build Log

Where users can chronicle their builds. Start one thread and continue to add on to it.

Moderators: Harold_V, WJH, hwboivin3

Rwilliams
Posts: 873
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 2:45 pm
Location: Central California

Re: Welcome to the Build Log

Post by Rwilliams » Tue Feb 05, 2013 6:54 pm

Over the past few years, I have often thought that a Build Log would allow for those members of our fine group interested in watching builds or posting their builds to easier navigate their way through the many posts that can find their way into the postings. Having to search through half a page or a few pages to find things can be time consuming. This new method keeps it simple which is what computers should be doing for our lives. Keeping the site user friendly is part of the challenge. Sometimes change is for the best and is the only constant we have to deal with. As the membership of the forum grows, this decision could be for the best to make it easier for new members to navigate around and feel like this is a nice place to be.

Years ago we were lucky to have Live Steam Magazine once a month. Then Modeltec came and went while Live Steam went through different editors and change to bimonthly publication. Seemed like each magazine had less and less for my direction in the hobby and then I found this group where my needs have been nourished beyond anything I could ever find in print. We have the luxury of personal messages and color photos far in excess of what any print material is going to provide. The encouragement and support available here is nothing like a magazine can provide. We have a gold mine of resources at our fingertips and if we have to adapt to a bit of change, it is just a part of the bigger and better view of our hobby that we have compared to the limitations of a magazine.

Lets give the Build Log a chance to become a part of the bigger picture before wanting to dispose of something that has not been given a fair trial by all over time. If I scrapped all of my ideas on paper before giving them a chance in the shop, my model building would certainly not be at the level I have brought it to.

I appreciate the thought that Atlantic442 had the courage to bring the idea of the Build Log up in the first place. Let's not shoot the message or the messenger just yet.

Robert

Soot n' Cinders
Posts: 686
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2012 5:24 pm
Location: Marietta, Georgia

Re: Welcome to the Build Log

Post by Soot n' Cinders » Tue Feb 05, 2013 7:20 pm

I think that this has the potential to be very useful. I often go through different build threads searching for ideas on how to do something or how to make something. I usually have to search the live steam forum and then scan through pages of results to find what I'm looking for. Now everything would be in one forum and we can search just the build threads.
-Tristan

Projects
-2.5" scale Class A 20 Ton Shay

Hudson Honey
Posts: 1123
Joined: Sat Nov 13, 2010 7:56 am
Location: San Diego area

Re: Welcome to the Build Log

Post by Hudson Honey » Tue Feb 05, 2013 7:56 pm

I think a whole lot is being made out of nothing.


Pamela

SP&S700
Posts: 71
Joined: Sun May 13, 2012 12:54 pm
Location: Portland, Ore LC

Re: Welcome to the Build Log

Post by SP&S700 » Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:47 pm

Dear Harold

First off I've not been a member very long, so I try to keep posts to a minimum. I like the cartoon someone posted, with the guy late at night pounding away on the key board, trying to "fix" something on the internet. This is the best BB I've ever been to, bar none. Harold you believe in freedom of speech and you let it roll, folks get a bit hot sometimes but it usually gives great give and take. Most if not all members are way ahead of me in repairing/building anything scale. This site has so much info it is unbelievable! Now for my "fix"

I would not have know about this section, if I was not talking with someone today over the phone.

My take is more on the way it was rolled out. I assume this was at least talked about before doing? For a novice at this site "Build Log" would not catch my attention, but then I'm new here. Now if the purpose was to get feed back, then I see its working! If you are going to continue with this section my suggestion is that items that come here are placed by you only after they become a certain length/good subject matter. I'm assuming this is like a mini book section on engine building? If it is to get as many posts as the main Live Steam section then I think its purpose gets defeated.
My 2 cents and I'll stop pounding on the key board.

Other then to say this is a great site with great folks, I've learned a lot.

Thanks

Clint

Harold_V
Posts: 17018
Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2002 11:02 pm
Location: Onalaska, WA USA

Re: Welcome to the Build Log

Post by Harold_V » Wed Feb 06, 2013 1:33 am

RB211 wrote:Other forums have so many different sub topics that it makes it difficult to find what you want. Chaski on the other hand has been very restrained compared to others. I think the build log forum is a good idea and makes it easier to find these build threads that often go sterile for a few weeks to months, go to the bottom, then all of a sudden are hot topics again.
If the membership does not abuse the new forum with hijacking the threads and allows the majority of the posts to be from the builder, this new forum could very well be useful to all.
The points raised here are key to the reason why this new sub-form has been introduced.

Sure--it's going to change the way a few people read the board--but in the overall picture, I fully expect that it will be of great benefit. Hudson Honey pretty much said it all.
What's the big deal if you have to navigate to a different sub-forum?

Too much trouble, you say?

Let me give you guys (and gals) something to think about.

I've been moderating this board for more than ten years now. At first I had privileges on only a few of the sub-fora. As moderators came and went, I assumed more and more responsibility, then, thanks to a reader gone berserk, posting all manner of profanity, when the board underwent an update, the owner granted me administrative privileges. You might understand that I was highly honored to receive that degree of trust and responsibility. To that end, I have continued, as I always have, to read EVERY post, every day, without exception. The closest I come to not reading fully is a fast review of the odd topic in which I have no interest, to assure that things aren't spinning out of control. I try to keep things in check, often editing (silently, and without changing the intended message) posts, to make them more reader friendly, or to remove questionable language.

Having given you far more information than I'm sure you needed to read, I hope you understand that I'm not too sympathetic if your complaint is it's "too inconvenient" to have go to a different forum to read a given thread. I've been doing that, daily, for all posts, for years, without complaint, and have asked nothing in return.

So then, suck it up and consider that your personal choices may not be in keeping with the choices of others. You have given up NOTHING by having a new sub-forum introduced, but many will gain a lot. Give it a chance, and, please, do not whine about how inconvenient you find it. Try to remember what I go through daily, which I do without complaint. You just might learn something from my example.

Uppermost, keep in mind, the board isn't about you, and it isn't about me---it's about upholding the machining, welding, foundry, guns, model engines, along with the railroad, and live steam hobby. We try to make decisions that benefit them. I fully expect this is one of them. In fact, the board administrator has already suggested that we should have an equal forum for the general machining section. I agree.

Harold
Wise people talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to say something.

Harold_V
Posts: 17018
Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2002 11:02 pm
Location: Onalaska, WA USA

Re: Welcome to the Build Log

Post by Harold_V » Wed Feb 06, 2013 2:08 am

SP&S700 wrote:Harold you believe in freedom of speech and you let it roll, folks get a bit hot sometimes but it usually gives great give and take.
Clint,
Thanks for your very welcome comments.
Yep, I try to let things flow, so long as a few simple rules are not abused. I do not tolerate religious or political discussions, nor are they to be expected to be tolerated. Nothing divides a group faster, and serves no good purpose than those two topics. Such posts are deleted immediately, and if the individual responsible persists, he may find him/herself in a less than good position with those of us who run the board.

Beyond those two restrictions, we try to avoid questionable language. We like to think that any reader would be proud to allow his mother/grandmother/daughter/wife/young child read the posts here, without fear of being subjected to profanity or comments found unacceptable in polite society. We do not permit personal attacks on this board (no flaming, in other words). These restrictions are the will of the owner, and I uphold his desires.

That's it! Pretty simple to be here and be accepted. I generally allow a heated discussion to continue, so long as I don't receive any complaints, as I've found that readers, at least here, understand how far they can go, and generally are self regulating. This is one fine board---where readers tend to be VERY well behaved.
I would not have know about this section, if I was not talking with someone today over the phone.
That's unfortunate, and you most likely are not alone. Some folks frequent this board for one reason, and one reason only. They often have little to no interest in reading anything except for the topic in which they hold an interest. We can't do much about that---it's up to readers to explore a little, so they have a firm understanding of what and where they can find things that hold their interest. A good example of that is the Resource Library.

Please read this in the spirit in which it is being offered.

Precious few of the people who frequent the shop know much about grinding wheels and how they should be applied. To that end, years ago, I posted on the subject. I was fortunate to have been mentored by a seasoned precision grinder, to which I responded with a fervor. In the thread on wheels, I have passed on years of hard won experience and knowledge, gained from my association with this fine gentleman. I'm not complaining, as the thread has received a huge following, but the number of people who come to the board and ask questions about grinding wheels is amazing. They could learn a great deal by simply checking the board, where they would receive the benefit of the many years of experience that went before us, posted by me in that thread.
My take is more on the way it was rolled out. I assume this was at least talked about before doing?
No, it was not. I learned the lesson on that subject when we added the additional forum in the Live Steam section. The controversary was never ending, and there was no solution. Those who wanted it added spoke their voice, and those who did not spoke theirs. Each had arguments for and against everything and anything. In the end, the only thing that could be said about my asking is that I received several opinions, proving that there was not a solution that would satisfy all readers. Based on that, I made the decision to make the request of the senior board administrator, which was granted in both cases. I fully support the decision.

On that subject, it's clear to me that most folks will have no part of moderating. If that be the case, they should expect to be fed the diet chosen by those who are willing. Some moderators do nothing, even on this board. They hold the title, but would best be replaced. If it was up to me, they would be, but I don't make the rules, I just enforce them.
If readers hope to have a voice in the operation of the board, offer your services. That's what I did----then I lived up to the responsibility. I have asked for nothing---it has all been given to me because I actually DO SOMETHING! :shock:
If you are going to continue with this section my suggestion is that items that come here are placed by you only after they become a certain length/good subject matter. I'm assuming this is like a mini book section on engine building? If it is to get as many posts as the main Live Steam section then I think its purpose gets defeated.
Well, given the shallow excuses for why it should not continue, yes, I fully expect it's going to. It had my support at the outset, but I ran it past the senior board administrator instead of making the decision alone. He, too, likes the idea, and has already discussed adding the same thing to the General Machining forum. I already made mention of this in my post, above.

In order for the thread to operate, it must have access by all readers. What we can all hope for is for readers to not constantly second guess the author----that his posts are for informational purposes, describing how he undertook a given project. The thread should be followed without unnecessary comments, so it has continuity. Some folks may have questions, so they should have the ability to post them. All readers stand to benefit that way. The only exception to that might be if something posted is dangerous, or offers considerable risk of failure, and there is a superior way to approach the issue. In such a case, I would expect readers to comment, and they should have the ability to do so.
My 2 cents and I'll stop pounding on the key board.
I'd like to thank you for sharing your thoughts, in particular, that they were shared with manners. We all like that! 8)

A comment. Don't hold back posting because you're new here. Everyone has a voice on this board, so long as they adhere to the basic rules.
Other then to say this is a great site with great folks, I've learned a lot.
Thanks, kindly! We try hard to make one's visit pleasant. Our objective is sweet and pure-----it's about providing a comfortable environment where readers can share common interests.

Harold
Wise people talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to say something.

rrnut-2
Posts: 412
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2011 7:40 pm
Location: New Hampshire

Re: Welcome to the Build Log

Post by rrnut-2 » Wed Feb 06, 2013 1:04 pm

Harold,

I think that this was a good idea. I have been using some of the builders photos to help with machining some of the parts for my loco. But, before its was time consuming to find the right picture and/or thread of the part being jigged up. I could remember seeing it, just couldn't find it..

Jim B

User avatar
neanderman
Posts: 578
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2012 7:15 pm
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA

Re: Welcome to the Build Log

Post by neanderman » Wed Feb 06, 2013 3:20 pm

As a relative newbie to both the board and machining (and who has this notion of building a loco 'tickling' the back of my brain...), I think it will be GREAT to have a single place to view the experiences of others.

This is a GREAT board, with GREAT people and a GREAT Moderator.

Ed
Ed

Le Blond Dual Drive
US-Burke Millrite MVI
Atlas 618
Files, snips and cold chisels

Proud denizen of the former "Machine Tool Capitol of the World"

User avatar
tsph6500
Posts: 1326
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2004 3:38 pm
Location: West of Dunvegan, Ontario CANADA
Contact:

Re: Welcome to the Build Log

Post by tsph6500 » Wed Feb 06, 2013 3:22 pm

I only have shallow excuses so I'll just suck it up… :P (but I would prefer less than more)
Best regards,
Jim Leggett

Montreal Live Steamers
www.montreallivesteamers.org

A Founding Member of the Tinkerbell Scale Society - Northern Division
I'm an A.R.S.E. (Association of Railroad Steam Engineers)
Toad Swamp & Punk Hollow Railroad - Head Tycoon
The Juvenile Traction Company - CEO & Apprentice Machinist 3rd Class
White Mountain Central RR - Engineer

User avatar
tsph6500
Posts: 1326
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2004 3:38 pm
Location: West of Dunvegan, Ontario CANADA
Contact:

Re: Welcome to the Build Log

Post by tsph6500 » Wed Feb 06, 2013 3:26 pm

Forums don't make for good reference databases by nature of their design. They provide ongoing conversations that fade away with time.

A definitive build series or topic could be edited and made available as a PDF file for download from a dedicated forum section.
Best regards,
Jim Leggett

Montreal Live Steamers
www.montreallivesteamers.org

A Founding Member of the Tinkerbell Scale Society - Northern Division
I'm an A.R.S.E. (Association of Railroad Steam Engineers)
Toad Swamp & Punk Hollow Railroad - Head Tycoon
The Juvenile Traction Company - CEO & Apprentice Machinist 3rd Class
White Mountain Central RR - Engineer

Harold_V
Posts: 17018
Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2002 11:02 pm
Location: Onalaska, WA USA

Re: Welcome to the Build Log

Post by Harold_V » Wed Feb 06, 2013 4:39 pm

tsph6500 wrote:Forums don't make for good reference databases by nature of their design. They provide ongoing conversations that fade away with time.
I agree. That's why this forum is a good idea. If it happens to fade away, readers have a clue where it can be found. Prior to this, that wasn't true, as readers have a way of posting their thoughts where they happen to be. That's the reason why we often find a subject that is related strictly to lathes, but posted in the General Machining forum. Needless to say, it's not wrong there, but there is a preferred sub-forum where it might be better placed.
A definitive build series or topic could be edited and made available as a PDF file for download from a dedicated forum section.
I trust you read my comments about moderators who do nothing on this board? And that those who have ideas that they wish to have incorporated should consider offering their services?
A couple things come to mind when I consider your suggestion. First one is, who do you expect to do the editing? I, for one, resent any reader who makes such a demand of me and my time, which is already considerable as it relates to the operation of this board. Sure, I do it by choice, but I don't expect others to add to my burden.

Lets assume that we take it upon ourselves to make the PDF download. At what point do we do that? If we do it, how will the contributor add to the information? Would you expect that a moderator would add that duty to his already busy schedule?

The way the new forum is structured, the individual in charge is expected to do all of that without assistance. After all, it's his/her subject. Readers can copy and paste any portion of the thread, downloading any or all of the information without inconveniencing anyone.

Now then, if you'd like to start paying me to do the things you'd like to see--that's a whole different matter. But--do keep in mind, I, as well as all others who operate this board, do so without cost to the owner. We do it because he's a very good man who foots the cost of operation so readers can have a place to share their experiences. Those with an entitlement attitude wear out their welcome with me in a hurry, expecting to have their whims addressed, at the expense of others---without lifting a hand to contribute.

I can't speak for the owner, but I can speak for myself. I don't work that way. You get what you get from me. If it isn't enough, or to your wishes, step forward and start contributing by dedicating some of your time, just as I have done. Once you do, I think some of this will be in better focus for you and you'll appreciate the gift you have been given in this forum, perhaps even accepting it as it is presented to you as it is----a gift.


Harold
Wise people talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to say something.

hwboivin3
Posts: 544
Joined: Thu May 03, 2007 3:14 pm
Location: OHIO

Re: Welcome to the Build Log

Post by hwboivin3 » Wed Feb 06, 2013 9:18 pm

I for one am optimistic about this. I particularly get tired of some of the senseless topics and cross posting that happens. Ibls updates, product reviews, etc. I was on the verge of suggesting a live steam junk drawer for topics that aren't very informative. But, I think the build log is a better route. I've been following Mike's Caboose build and feel it should be in a better place than where it is. Steam or no steam, there are a lot of nice topics of projects. This is better than scrolling through pages of mystery tracks revealed, home railway journal, facing flanged pipe, etc.

169 pgs just in live steam. There are a lot of great topics but you have to sift through a lot of weeds to find the flowers.



Thanks Harold !


H

Post Reply