Project: N&W class J on 5"gauge

Where users can chronicle their builds. Start one thread and continue to add on to it.

Moderators: Harold_V, WJH, hwboivin3

Post Reply
Harold_V
Posts: 16871
Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2002 11:02 pm
Location: Onalaska, WA USA

Re: Project: N&W class J on 5"gauge

Post by Harold_V » Fri Apr 08, 2016 3:35 pm

jcbrock wrote:WIG (Wolfram Inert Gas) is the equivalent to TIG (Tungsten Inert Gas) here in the US.
Wolfram is the technical name assigned to tungsten, so that makes sense. I had failed to make the connection until I read your post.
Beautiful workmanship, Chris. Keep sharing your progress.
I agree fully. I have long been impressed by those who build faithful to prototype models, which these guys seem to have as an objective.

Harold
Wise people talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to say something.

User avatar
Steamchris
Posts: 383
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2012 3:48 pm
Location: Duisburg/Germany
Contact:

Re: Project: N&W class J on 5"gauge

Post by Steamchris » Tue May 31, 2016 4:55 am

Hi Guys,

just want to share some pics of my new Rods.
Milled by CNC , for the test i've made it out of Aluminium.
Everthing looks good , so i will produce the rods out of
stainless Steel. The runing gear will run with roller bearings all out.
But those i have to buy, when i get it i will report further.
2016-05-31 11.54.22.jpg
2016-05-31 11.45.10.jpg
2016-05-31 11.45.27.jpg
2016-05-31 11.46.06.jpg





All the Best
Chris
The light at the end of the tunnel could be a train ;)

Health and Safety Notice

due to the current economic circumstances , the light at the end of the tunnel
has been switched off !

User avatar
NP317
Posts: 1230
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2014 2:57 pm
Location: Northern Oregon

Re: Project: N&W class J on 5"gauge

Post by NP317 » Tue May 31, 2016 10:00 am

Ahhh. The joys of CNC machining!
~RN

Asteamhead
Posts: 339
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:59 pm
Location: Germany, Duesseldorf

Re: Project: N&W class J on 5"gauge

Post by Asteamhead » Tue May 31, 2016 2:01 pm

Chris,
Like those tandem side rods (which were common with all Timken Northerns)!
Asteamhead

little giant
Posts: 94
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2015 5:35 pm
Location: Rochester NY

Re: Project: N&W class J on 5"gauge

Post by little giant » Wed Jun 01, 2016 8:41 pm

The first NYC 4-8-4 Niagara #6000 started out with 1 side rod. As testing began on that engine it bent the side rod and then the NYC added the tandem rod. These engines had over 6000 horsepower! I have a picture in my collection where a Niagara had a stuck cylinder cock and bent the main rod off the driver without derailing the engine.

User avatar
Steamchris
Posts: 383
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2012 3:48 pm
Location: Duisburg/Germany
Contact:

Re: Project: N&W class J on 5"gauge

Post by Steamchris » Wed Jun 01, 2016 11:01 pm

Hey Giant,
862-af00ac8b.jpg
I think you're talking about that pic...

All the Best
Chtis
The light at the end of the tunnel could be a train ;)

Health and Safety Notice

due to the current economic circumstances , the light at the end of the tunnel
has been switched off !

Asteamhead
Posts: 339
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:59 pm
Location: Germany, Duesseldorf

Re: Project: N&W class J on 5"gauge

Post by Asteamhead » Sat Jun 04, 2016 3:33 pm

Giant, Chris,
when I saw this picture for the first time, I wondered if not the reason for that failure was due to a miscalculated construction of the multible cross head solution by Timken cy. Look, crosshead and upper shoe are connected by just 4 bolts. These are stressed by changing forces at the end of the stroke at each revolution. If any of them gets loose, destruction will start!
N&W decided to use the identical Timken crosshead as alligator design in favour of avoiding such problems and less maintainance cost (and improved safety?).
Just my 2 cents based on an engineering background. Any replys are welcome!

Asteamhead

User avatar
makinsmoke
Posts: 1789
Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2003 12:56 pm
Location: Texas Hill Country

Re: Project: N&W class J on 5"gauge

Post by makinsmoke » Sun Jun 05, 2016 7:22 am

Interesting that the piston rod appears to be hollow?

little giant
Posts: 94
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2015 5:35 pm
Location: Rochester NY

Re: Project: N&W class J on 5"gauge

Post by little giant » Sun Jun 05, 2016 9:10 am

makinsmoke wrote:Interesting that the piston rod appears to be hollow?
From the information I researched the main rods and side rods were made from a light weight steel. I came across the chemical composition and called a steel company and gave them the information and the closest material today was titanium. That could be the reason why they are hollow, to save on the cost. Maybe Harold could add some wisdom as well.

Asteamhead
Posts: 339
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:59 pm
Location: Germany, Duesseldorf

Re: Project: N&W class J on 5"gauge

Post by Asteamhead » Sun Jun 05, 2016 11:30 am

little giant,
building the A 1239 with Timken running gear of the N&W, I gathered every sort of information including the drawings of such equipment. The NYC Niagaras, Santa Fe' s 3776 and 2900 as N&W 600 and C&O 614 all used the Timken lightweight running gear with tandem rods. Slight differences were made regarding multible or alligator crossheads, guides and shoes.
Shoes first made of aluminium(!) as were pistons to reduce reciprocating weight to a minimum had been replaced by more rugged ones made of bronze later on.
The lightweight piston rods had been bored hollow for the same reason - reduced weight to increase maximum rev / min. Dimensions were 5 or 5 1/2 " diameter, bore was 3 1/4 to 3 1/2 ".
Most parts were made of Timken high dynamic steel (carbon 40-43, manganese 70-80, nickel 170-180, chromium 70-80, molybdenium 28-33.
Data is of drawing no. E-42849 of the N&WHS.
The crosshead centers wwere clamped by 2 x 4 1" precision bolts, which connected the shoes as well.
Both (single side) multible or (double) alligator crossheads could be used. The single sided crossheads got a weight to balance the tilting forces.
The only weak point with single sided crossheads were those just 4 bolts to connect centers to the crosshead body (my opinion).

Please let me show my model version of that state of the art prototype made by Timken.
No doubt hat Timken running gear was the last word for modern steam locomotives!

Asteamhead
Attachments
A Timken crosshead details_800x600.JPG
Construction for easy assembly
A Timken crosshead with main rod red.jpg
Open view to crosshead centers and main rod with ball bearings

Harold_V
Posts: 16871
Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2002 11:02 pm
Location: Onalaska, WA USA

Re: Project: N&W class J on 5"gauge

Post by Harold_V » Sun Jun 05, 2016 3:52 pm

makinsmoke wrote:Interesting that the piston rod appears to be hollow?
If memory serves, the piston rod on the Big Boy was (also) hollow. I'll see if I can locate the article published in the early 60's, which clearly showed a cut rod. Several of the Big Boys were scrapped by Geneva Steel (now defunct), a steel mill in Utah County.

Harold
Wise people talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to say something.

User avatar
Greg_Lewis
Posts: 1510
Joined: Wed Jan 15, 2003 2:44 pm
Location: Fresno, CA

Re: Project: N&W class J on 5"gauge

Post by Greg_Lewis » Sun Jun 05, 2016 9:36 pm

Harold_V wrote:
makinsmoke wrote:Interesting that the piston rod appears to be hollow?
If memory serves, the piston rod on the Big Boy was (also) hollow. I'll see if I can locate the article published in the early 60's, which clearly showed a cut rod. Several of the Big Boys were scrapped by Geneva Steel (now defunct), a steel mill in Utah County.

Harold
Here's the Big Boy that's on display in Texas. You can see the hollow piston rod. Too bad they cut it.
Attachments
big boy.JPG
Greg Lewis, Prop.
Eyeball Engineering — Home of non-interchangeable parts.
Our motto: "That looks about right."
Celebrating 30 years of turning perfectly good metal into bits of useless scrap.

Post Reply