Show your Park Gauge train

[Glenn Brooks]

MTC G-16 just listed for sale on Discover live Steam. Looks like it has been nicely reconditioned.

16" ga engine

View of engineer compartment

image.jpg (27.02 KiB) Viewed 7582 times

Coach

image.jpg (30.58 KiB) Viewed 7582 times

[Glenn Brooks]

Had an occasion to research Seattle's Woodland Park Zoo Train today, which ran at the Zoo from the summer of 1947 thru the late 1960's or early 1970's. Here is a photo of the original steam engine being operated near Green Lake, on the north side of the zoo. In latter years this steam locomotive was replaced with an MTC G 16 diesel locomotive, or similar ride. This loco may be an early day Bud Hurlbut locomotive. Notice the 4-4-2 wheel configuration. Very unusual for park gauge steam locos. Mr. Hurlbut was the guiding genius behind the Knott's Berry Farm miniature train and flume rides installed in the 1960's.

Cagney's and latter Ottaway's were almost always 4-4-0 builds. Also included for comparison are two photos of a known Hurlbut locomotive (engine #1036), built 20 years later and now on display at the Santa Ana Zoo at Prentice Park in Southern California. notice the distinctive 4-4-2 wheel configuration of both engines and similarities regarding the longish smoke box/short boiler jacket, extending to the front edge of the leading drive wheel.

Seattle Times Photo of the Woodland Park Miniature Train Ride, circa 1947

Preserved Hurlbert 2-4-2

1346 in operation at Riverside Theme Park, Southern California

image.jpeg (65.8 KiB) Viewed 7492 times

Here is another Hurlbut engine, (engine # 1027) just recently refurbished and on display at the Sahauaro Museum in the Pheonix area. Notice the gas power plant fitted into the mock boiler.

[steamin10]

Iccchh! Putting a gas motor in such a piece islike putting lipstick and a dress on a goat for a fashion show. I dont like it much, and am disappointed.

With the era and the history these engines represent, they deserve better than a Put-put drive motor. You like putting, do a railtruck, or crew motor, not butcher a piece of history. Sorry, my opinion is mine, and thats the way I see it.

[NP317]

Glenn:
When I first moved to Seattle in 1969, I got to ride on the i.c.-powered train at Woodland Park Zoo.
I've wondered what happened to that park train. Any knowledge about that?

There also used to be a GN Consolidation on display at that zoo.
It now resides pitifully in Merril Oregon, as one of many derelict steam locomotives stored there by the eccentric (my description) owner.
The story of why it was allowed to leave Seattle is a sad one; again about the city council trying to get whatever amount of cash from what was a gift from the GNRR. It went for $100. Disgusting.

So goes RR history.
~RN

[Glenn Brooks]

Yes, indeed, cutting out a boiler and installing a gas engine is a lot like putting lipstick on a pig, in my estimation. I even feel a bit put off when I see the proliferation of propane powered locomotives... But for better or worse, it's all part of the Park Gauge live Steam lore...

I think in the 1959's and '60's, gas power conversion was looked at a lot like propane conversion today. It was a more affordable technology, and fit the circumstances of the day. In those days, At least in regards to the mom and pop amusement park industry, it's pretty well documented that re-powering old run-out steam locomotives with gas engines was sort of an economic necessity. By 1960, operating and maintaining amusement parks in general, and live steam locomotives particularly, had become a very expensive proposition. The precipitous decline in Park attendance and revenue, and the remarkable popularity and ease of operation afforded by MTC's g-10, G-12, and G-16 train sets left many Park Gauge concession operators with the choice to modify their equipment or go out of business and send their motive power to the scrap yards.

So I think a lot of people saw repowering with MTC's gas engine and hydrostatic transmission as an ideal way to extend the life of their steam train concessions.

[steamin10]

Glenn: Not to argue the realistic economics of amusements, I just find the butchery of machines to be fingerpainting on a Picasso, or Mona Lisa. Once such conversions are started, I know of none reversed. It is only my horror of the destruction of industry.

The G series sets are designed to make money, and repowering the Crosley engines with other more modern stuff is understndable. The AB Chance trains are a similar vein. Numbers for success are harsh reality. I have no critique of your view, just n understanding of what has passed.

[Glenn Brooks]

NP317,

Regarding the Woodland Park Zoo Train, I understand from John Taubeneck, a local Seattle Railroad historian that the Zoo actually had four railroads over the years. John reports the 4-4-2 steamer in the picture above lasted only for two years or so (1947-48 maybe). Then in 1950, someone else put in a National Amusement Device 24" gauge "Century Flyer". A 16" gauge MTC G-16 "Buffalo Barns & Southern RR " was installed in 1953. John says around 1976 the track was again changed to 24" gauge and a Crown Metal 4-4-0 was put into service. He thinks possibly the Crown went to Oak Park in Portland after the Woodland Park road closed in 1980. However the history of these small Pikes are rather vague.

Having at least four different engines and several track gauges would account for the variety of stories and different recollections of equipment types from people who road the train at different times. My vague recollection as a kid in the early 50's is of an exciting ride on what would have been the NAD Century Flyer, then serious disappointment on a latter visit, that no train existed at all.

It may be that John T. will publish an account of the zoo trains and where they have gone. He seems to be working on compiling a history of the zoo's railroading attempts.

[NP317]

Glenn:
Thanks for the info on the Woodland Park Trains.
I should have known John Taubeneck might be a source of history. He and I worked together at the Snoqualmie Railroad Museum in the 1970s-80s.
Long ago, now.
~Russ

[Glenn Brooks]

Russ,

John is writing an article about the zoo trains. I'll try to forward it when it comes out. Btw, the live steamer in the photo might be a Coffman... Rather than a Hurlbut. Still tying to pin down...

Glenn

[Cary Stewart]

Probably the worst case of gutting a boiler and putting a smoke generator and a V8 in the tender was the sad case of Virginia & Truckee No. 11, the Reno, at old Tucson Movie Ranch. Later it got fried when stored in a wood barn that burned to the ground along with some 1870s vintage cars. Nothing left but the iron pieces. All to make money. Many have tried to buy the V & T RR rolling stock there but no sale and much of it is not even kindling anymore. So much for preservation.
Cary

[NP317]

Russ,

John is writing an article about the zoo trains. I'll try to forward it when it comes out. Btw, the live steamer in the photo might be a Coffman... Rather than a Hurlbut. Still tying to pin down...

Glenn

Thanks. I will look forward to reading John T's article!
~Russ

[Glenn Brooks]

Russ, John says he found yet another train at Woodland Park. In the spring of '53, the new owner of the Carnival rides concession put in a park Guage train. The owners of the Buffalo Barns & Southern RR, the existing Zoo railway concession complained about unfair competition to the Seattle Park Board and the carnival train was pulled. So that makes five railroads, having five changes of gauge at the Zoo between 1946 and 1980, not counting the NP display that got sold into Oregon.