posting old pictures and who gets credit for them

Discuss park gauge trains and large scale miniature railways having track gauges from 8" to 24" gauge and designed at scales of 2" to the foot or greater - whether modeled for personal use, or purpose built for amusement park operation or private railroading.

Moderators: Glenn Brooks, Harold_V

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Topics may include: antique park gauge train restoration, preservation, and history; building new grand scale equipment from scratch; large scale miniature railway construction, maintenance, and safe operation; fallen flags; track, gauge, and equipment standards; grand scale vendor offerings; and, compiling an on-line motive power roster.
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ALCOSTEAM
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posting old pictures and who gets credit for them

Post by ALCOSTEAM » Sun Nov 27, 2016 12:24 pm

I have been scanning slides from the collection of a fellow live steamer and he has told me that I can post and or share them. He has both taken some of the slides himself while others have been traded for or been given to him so I really don't know who the original photographer was unless its noted on the slide when I scan it. From what I have scanned so far it appears the slides date from the early 80's back into the mid 50's with some various earlier ones in the mix.
So my first question is giving credit to the photographer and is it even necessary given the age of many of the photos. I know a couple of guys that have extensive photo collections and I know they did not take the vast majority of the photos they posses in their collection but when they publish photos they attribute it to "their collection" even if they are fully aware of who took said photo. I have also bought RR slides off of ebay only to find that the original writing on the slide clearly matches the handwriting of someone I know who obviously took that photo, yet the person I bought the slide from considers it theirs. Where does the fuzzy gray line lay in ownership of old photo's begin and end.

The other question is and I know some members here have posted some old pictures and I would like to post some of these slides I have scanned. What is the best way to go about it? I would really like to just post to chaski if thats ok, I realize the size of the pictures is diminished. I tried years ago to use one of the picture hosting sites and never quite got the thing to work as I thought it should as in easy and simple. I also don't like getting diverted offsite by links and such so I figure others are the same way.

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Harlock
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Re: posting old pictures and who gets credit for them

Post by Harlock » Sun Nov 27, 2016 10:57 pm

As a professional photographer who is also starting to acquire vintage photos, here is what I have seen and what I do.

If I know who the photographer is, I will say, "Mike Massee collection, such-and-such photo." If the photographer is unknown, I just say "Mike Massee collection"

if you don't definitively know who the photographer is, it is wise to not guess. Just say it is part of a collection. If you do know who it is, give the credit where credit is due.

As for posting, Chaski will now auto-resize photos that are too large. so it's pretty easy to post here. The resolution is sufficient for general viewing for purposes of discussion. If you want to provide high resolution originals, I suggest linking to a dropbox folder with the original file.
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Nelson
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Re: posting old pictures and who gets credit for them

Post by Nelson » Mon Nov 28, 2016 8:19 am

+1 Harlock

Do the best you can to identify the photographer and give credit. It's hard sometimes.
Nothing placed on the internet will stay private.
Nels
SB 10L Lathe in pieces, Burke #4, Van Norman #12

Glenn Brooks
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Re: posting old pictures and who gets credit for them

Post by Glenn Brooks » Tue Nov 29, 2016 12:27 am

FYI. here is an interesting factoid from the US GOV copyright site., concerning length of ownership rights of original works, aka old photos... just passing it along ...


How long does a copyright last?
The term of copyright for a particular work depends on several factors, including whether it has been published, and, if so, the date of first publication. As a general rule, for works created after January 1, 1978, copyright protection lasts for the life of the author plus an additional 70 years. For an anonymous work, a pseudonymous work, or a work made for hire, the copyright endures for a term of 95 years from the year of its first publication or a term of 120 years from the year of its creation, whichever expires first. For works first published prior to 1978, the term will vary depending on several factors. To determine the length of copyright protection for a particular work, consult chapter 3 of the Copyright Act (title 17 of the United States Code). More information on the term of copyright can be found in Circular 15a, Duration of Copyright, and Circular 1, Copyright Basics.

They also say copyright can be transferred by buying the work from the copyright holder.

There are also some interesting discussions on various forums regarding copyright exemptions for 'derivations' of original works. Basically short summaries, or partial copies, of original works - such as portions of engineering drawings used by third parties to clarify understanding of a design. I have no idea if small digital format internet images could be considered as derivations of the original 35 mm slide.

whoops, time to close Pandora's Box. :!:

Glenn
Moderator - Grand Scale Forum

Motive power : 1902 A.S.Campbell 4-4-0 American - 12 5/8" gauge, 1955 Ottaway 4-4-0 American 12" gauge

Ahaha, Retirement: the good life - drifting endlessly on a Sea of projects....

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NP317
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Re: posting old pictures and who gets credit for them

Post by NP317 » Tue Nov 29, 2016 10:44 am

So is a "derivation" of an original digital photo actually a copy at lower resolution?
Poses interesting questions.
~RN

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Greg_Lewis
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Re: posting old pictures and who gets credit for them

Post by Greg_Lewis » Tue Nov 29, 2016 8:17 pm

NP317 wrote:So is a "derivation" of an original digital photo actually a copy at lower resolution?
Poses interesting questions.
~RN
A derivative work is modifying the image or incorporating it or part of it into a new work. To be considered derivative, it must be substantially different from the original work. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derivative_work Under this definition, a low resolution image is not a derivative of the original.

The creator of a derivative work still needs clearance from the original copyright holder. What is in the public domain and what is not gets complicated based on when the work was created and/or published. Here's a quick guide: http://copyright.cornell.edu/resources/publicdomain.cfm.

I wouldn't worry about images created or published before 1978 without copyright notices on them. The likelihood of them being copyright is small and the lack of notice would be a good defense. This does not apply to images created after 1978, which are automatically copyright and do not need to carry a copyright notice. Here's a faq on copyright from the copyright office: http://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/
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NP317
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Re: posting old pictures and who gets credit for them

Post by NP317 » Tue Nov 29, 2016 9:42 pm

Good clarification, Greg.
~RN

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ctwo
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Re: posting old pictures and who gets credit for them

Post by ctwo » Wed Nov 30, 2016 1:40 pm

The story of the red bus copyright infringement baffled me. I never would have considered copyright of old photographs of casual events.
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Nelson
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Re: posting old pictures and who gets credit for them

Post by Nelson » Thu Dec 01, 2016 2:23 am

Copyright or not, if you post something on the net, you have to expect people to share it. If you want, you can go around suing people. That takes time and money. One British model engineering magazine sent a dead guy a cease and decist letter for scanning in their past issues.
Nels
SB 10L Lathe in pieces, Burke #4, Van Norman #12

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