Woodinville Shops

Discuss park gauge trains and large scale miniature railways having track gauges from 8" to 24" gauge and designed at scales of 2" to the foot or greater - whether modeled for personal use, or purpose built for amusement park operation or private railroading.

Moderators: Glenn Brooks, Harold_V

Forum rules
Topics may include: antique park gauge train restoration, preservation, and history; building new grand scale equipment from scratch; large scale miniature railway construction, maintenance, and safe operation; fallen flags; track, gauge, and equipment standards; grand scale vendor offerings; and, compiling an on-line motive power roster.
Glenn Brooks
Posts: 1035
Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2014 1:39 pm
Location: Woodinville, Washington

Re: Woodinville Shops- Trestle Build

Postby Glenn Brooks » Tue Oct 03, 2017 11:03 pm

Set up the vertical posts for each bent today. Lots of fiddling with the cheapo laser level and the top of each post to achieve a level and decent fit with the cap timbers. This trestle will feature four post bents. So the two outermost angled bents will happen tomorrow, hopefully.

So far, I seem to be able to preserve the 1/2" super elevation I wanted to achieve before start of construction. My $25 laser level Craig's list find has turned out to be invaluable for setting elevations and measuring grade. And confirming consistent superelevation from post to post.

I found a copper based wood preservative at the Hardware store that dries to a dark brown, almost black color. So liberally soaked the end grain of each post, and decided to paint all the surfaces of each post to simulate creosote. I also bedded the post ends and bottoms of the metal brackets with Dolphinite bedding compound (an old school marine bedding compound idea carried over from my Alaska Commercial Fishing days). Dolphite prevents dry rot spores and water from entering between two tightly held wood surfaces. So these post ends should remain fresh and solid for 40 years or more.

The welded metal brackets at the sills seem to be working out very well. I opted to use 3/8" galvanized lag screws to anchor the posts to the sills (treated 4x6). Stout as hell. So far...

My surveying 'QC' method to ensure proper curvature of the centerline and placement of the posts around the radii of the curve, is to balance a length of pre-curved rail atop the cap and posts, and adjust each post to rest directly underneath the rail. Held my thumb out at arms length to line up the rail ends with the end of track a few feet away. Worked pretty well I think.

My next challenge is to cut and fit the two angled outer posts to the sill and cap timbers. Think this will be a cookie cutter deal - lay the timber up against the frame, mark the edges and whack off what doesn't belong. Until it slides in nice and tight. Then thru nail with 10" spikes.

Here are a few pics...

In the shop - closeup of welded sill brackets to hold the vertical posts in each bent in place. General dimensions are 5" wide, 6" tall, 3/16" thickness. Through bolted with galvanized 5/16" bolts.

IMG_3560.JPG
Welded metal brackets affixed to bottom of the vertical support posts. Two per post. 4 bents. So 16 brackets total + 8 angle iron brackets to anchor the ends of the stringers to the reventments


Bents going up onto footings at the 'Grand Canyon'

IMG_4361.JPG
Overview of the bents and cap timbers going into place


IMG_4364.JPG
Oblique view of center most bents, looking to the west edge of the "Grand Canyon"


IMG_4366.JPG
Closeup of Bent B on the slope of the west revetment


IMG_4359.JPG
Another view...


Glenn
Moderator - Grand Scale Forum

Motive power : 1902 A.S.Campbell 4-4-0 American - 12 5/8" gauge, 1955 Ottaway 4-4-0 American 12" gauge

Ahaha, Retirement: the good life - drifting endlessly on a Sea of projects....

rkcarguy
Posts: 269
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2017 10:33 am

Re: Woodinville Shops

Postby rkcarguy » Wed Oct 04, 2017 12:03 am

Looking good, I can see it starting to come together:)
What kind of minimum radius are you using on your turns? I've done some research and have seen where many advise against any super-elevation on a backyard layout, FYI. Maybe that's because the 7-1/2" gage stuff is too tippy though.

I've been pleased so far with my test piece of wood sitting outside with "uncle Larry's stain recipe" on it, it actually dries to the touch and doesn't feel slippery or smell very much.

Glenn Brooks
Posts: 1035
Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2014 1:39 pm
Location: Woodinville, Washington

Re: Woodinville Shops- trestle build

Postby Glenn Brooks » Wed Oct 04, 2017 1:39 am

RK,
Thanks. Yes, rather exciting to see some progress. Generally speaking, I've tried to hold my minimum radius to 40', although one curve might be closer to 30'. Haven't really measured it as the center point is inside the shop, so can't lay out the radius, and haven't yet measured/calculated the chord length.

I thought about no superelevation, but decided to build it into the camber of the trestle deck as it is easy to control with height of the bents. Not so much with ballast. I think at 7.5" ga, the elevation is so small that it isn't worth trying to set in place. Maybe other reasons I am not aware of. Maybe one of the 7 1/2" engineering folk can say more.

Glenn
Moderator - Grand Scale Forum

Motive power : 1902 A.S.Campbell 4-4-0 American - 12 5/8" gauge, 1955 Ottaway 4-4-0 American 12" gauge

Ahaha, Retirement: the good life - drifting endlessly on a Sea of projects....

rkcarguy
Posts: 269
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2017 10:33 am

Re: Woodinville Shops

Postby rkcarguy » Wed Oct 04, 2017 7:27 pm

I am trying to keep my radius's to 40' minimum as well. In fact being I'm doing my track "train set" style, I'll probably just jig up 10' lengths of 40' radius and let that be that. I know it's not optimum, but I'm confident in my joiners that it's not going to buckle or bend at the joints. I'll be using the same 3/8x1 material as the rail is with 1/4" grade 8's in a very tight 1/4" hole and it should be pretty solid. Not only that, but if I move, it's all coming with me!
I actually did the chord length calculation to scale as I have no place flat to swing a 40' radius. If you were to bend a piece of rail so the ends were up in the air and middle on the ground, a 40' radius is about 7-1/2" up on each end. I just drew it at 1/4" = 12" scale and it was easy enough to figure it out.
In the distant future, loco build #2 will probably be a "Hustler" switcher in DRG&W, and that will have a longer wheelbase so I want to make sure it work on my RR.

rkcarguy
Posts: 269
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2017 10:33 am

Re: Woodinville Shops

Postby rkcarguy » Fri Oct 06, 2017 1:27 pm

Edit to above, the rail piece would be 10' long.

rkcarguy
Posts: 269
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2017 10:33 am

Re: Woodinville Shops

Postby rkcarguy » Fri Oct 06, 2017 1:48 pm

How are you going to "style" your trestle Glenn? Any fire barrels/platforms or cable and posts along one side?
I was left a bunch of wood beams in a lean-to on my property that aren't going to have structural markings and can't be used in the house, so I may use them for a trestle as I have one area that will either need one or a bunch of fill. I'm thinking a walkway along one side with posts and cable. About a year ago the junk dumpster produced a partial spool of about 280' of 1/8" stainless cable:)

Glenn Brooks
Posts: 1035
Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2014 1:39 pm
Location: Woodinville, Washington

Re: Woodinville Shops

Postby Glenn Brooks » Fri Oct 06, 2017 11:02 pm

Rick,

Good question. So far, nothing fancy, such as water barrels. I do plan to add decking between the rails And on the outside of the rails. My deck will be 48" wide, as I planned the trestle to do double duty as a walking bridge. maybe latter, also part of a small mountain bike loop around the back yard, when the RR eventually gets pulled and another owner takes over the property.

The decking will be an immediate safety feature, keeping neighborhood kids (and myself) from sticking a foot through the ties and falling over the edge - with their broken leg still caught between the ties. So bridge decking is definitely on the list. No manifest destiny here! I am generally in full risk mitigation mode when designing things like this.

I probably should add railing, but that's for later - if the structure gets used extensively as part of a walking path. There are some RR cantilever design methods that look like they would be very sturdy, affixed to the ends of the bents, with wood stringers e.t. Hand rails, between the uprights.

Oh yah, one feature for certain - guard rails inside the track - to contain the loco and rolling stock in the event of a derailment. I'll be adding these contemporaneous with laying the track down, once the structure is complete.

Glenn
Moderator - Grand Scale Forum

Motive power : 1902 A.S.Campbell 4-4-0 American - 12 5/8" gauge, 1955 Ottaway 4-4-0 American 12" gauge

Ahaha, Retirement: the good life - drifting endlessly on a Sea of projects....

rkcarguy
Posts: 269
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2017 10:33 am

Re: Woodinville Shops

Postby rkcarguy » Sun Oct 08, 2017 6:41 pm

Good point on the foot trap, I think I'll space my ties closer together over any trestles, I'm already at 2-1/2" between, but I'll shrink that to maybe 1-1/2".

Glenn Brooks
Posts: 1035
Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2014 1:39 pm
Location: Woodinville, Washington

Re: Woodinville Shops - bents finally finished

Postby Glenn Brooks » Sun Oct 15, 2017 12:23 am

Just a quick note. Finished up the bents today, added the cross framing, and cut and laid the first two stringers in place. Trying to beat the winter rains - due to arrive Tuesday or Wednesday. So three more days to finish the major part of the work, before it gets miserable outside.

IMG_4376.JPG
Four post bents with cross framing


IMG_4377.JPG
Sturdy little beasts!


IMG_4378.JPG
View from the northeast


IMG_4382.JPG
Laying out the stringers


Glenn
Moderator - Grand Scale Forum

Motive power : 1902 A.S.Campbell 4-4-0 American - 12 5/8" gauge, 1955 Ottaway 4-4-0 American 12" gauge

Ahaha, Retirement: the good life - drifting endlessly on a Sea of projects....

dash9
Posts: 49
Joined: Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:02 pm
Location: Barnesville , PA
Contact:

Re: Woodinville Shops

Postby dash9 » Sun Oct 15, 2017 7:10 am

Do you dig footers before you lay the block. When the ground freezes does it heave it up if you don't. Here in Pa we get up
to 40" of frost in the ground.

Glenn Brooks
Posts: 1035
Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2014 1:39 pm
Location: Woodinville, Washington

Re: Woodinville Shops

Postby Glenn Brooks » Sun Oct 15, 2017 11:38 am

Hi Dash9,

Yes I laid in cement footers for each bent. Then laid the concrete block on top of the footers, bedded in mortar.

Here in Seattle we don't get any frost in the ground so only had to go down about a 12" or so. No frost heaving to speak of, but a lot of hydrolic action due to the constantly saturated soils from the winter rains. I thought about putting in sauna tubes and setting each upright on separate cement pillars, but decided that would be overkill for the PNW.

I think foundation at a foot depth will be sufficient - hopefully.

Glenn
Moderator - Grand Scale Forum

Motive power : 1902 A.S.Campbell 4-4-0 American - 12 5/8" gauge, 1955 Ottaway 4-4-0 American 12" gauge

Ahaha, Retirement: the good life - drifting endlessly on a Sea of projects....

rkcarguy
Posts: 269
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2017 10:33 am

Re: Woodinville Shops

Postby rkcarguy » Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:43 am

Looks great Glenn. I hear you on the rains, we've had a fair amount up here already but things were so dry that it hasn't gotten sloppy yet. For those of you not from the area Glenn and I are, we get over 36" of rain on average from fall through spring.
The thing I've found important isn't so much the depth but the drainage. Pack your footings in clear gravel that has drainage and all should be good, like the way a foundation drain is built around a house for example. Around an accessory building I built years ago, I trenched around the foundation, laid heavy plastic into the trench, perforated tube, drain rock, then covered with weed cloth and more drain rock. Trenches were cut shallow at one corner and deep at the other, and then the pipes coupled to a pipe leading to a drain pit. Nothing can heave when it doesn't have water in it.


Return to “Grand Scale Railroading”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests