12" working railroad

Discuss park gauge trains and large scale miniature railways having track gauges from 8" to 24" gauge and designed at scales of 2" to the foot or greater - whether modeled for personal use, or purpose built for amusement park operation or private railroading.

Moderators: Glenn Brooks, Harold_V

Forum rules
Topics may include: antique park gauge train restoration, preservation, and history; building new grand scale equipment from scratch; large scale miniature railway construction, maintenance, and safe operation; fallen flags; track, gauge, and equipment standards; grand scale vendor offerings; and, compiling an on-line motive power roster.
Glenn Brooks
Posts: 1799
Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2014 1:39 pm
Location: Woodinville, Washington

Re: 12" working railroad

Post by Glenn Brooks » Thu May 17, 2018 11:27 pm

rkcarguy wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 11:06 am
AARtrucks.jpg

I don't have the chain and sprockets drawn in that connect one wheel-set to the other in this drawing.
Ryan,

Your truck drawings look pretty interesting. Do you plan on having a shop cut them with water jet dirextly off the drawing?

Also wondering if you would be interested in possibly resizing and sharing the drawings at 4” scale?

I’ve been thinking about building a new set of trucks for my yard goat - a home built loco the P.O. made up back in the late 60’s. The body is large enuf to ride in but is perched on minuscule wheels and side frames. It needs complete restoration but the big replacement items are the wheel sets and side frames and bolsters.

Thanks much,
Glenn
Attachments
3E3201BC-BF97-4A00-BC41-55928FA29F60.jpeg
122B02F7-E404-427C-B25F-9D55376FB1D9.jpeg
2471DA99-6A52-48E8-BC0E-E022A37AB2A6.jpeg
1372A33F-025B-4EC4-A859-EEE770726C63.jpeg
Moderator - Grand Scale Forum

Motive power : 1902 A.S.Campbell 4-4-0 American - 12 5/8" gauge, 1955 Ottaway 4-4-0 American 12" gauge

Ahaha, Retirement: the good life - drifting endlessly on a Sea of projects....

rkcarguy
Posts: 1293
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2017 10:33 am
Location: Wa State

Re: 12" working railroad

Post by rkcarguy » Fri May 18, 2018 1:15 am

Glenn, it would be no problem to scale them up, would you use the same 1" axle size and pillow blocks, or upsize to 1-1/4" or bigger?
I can select the whole drawing in CAD, and simply scale it 2x to double it in size (I'm at 2" scale), then redraw the bolt pattern to suit the bearings you'll use.
My workplace purchased a beast of a laser cutting machine, capacity 1" mild steel, 3/4" stainless, and 1/2" aluminum! Were hoping to have it here, and be up and running by the end of July. So far I have found my laser cut parts to stay nice and flat, no need for water jet. The laser cuts so fast that the parts are only +/- body temperature when they are removed from the table. I'm going to be building my chassis, mounting the engine, building the exhaust and muffler, as well as mounting the compressor and air tanks, so I'll have plenty to do until the laser shows up and I can get my truck parts cut. We also have a Arclight plasma table now, but it cuts with more bevel on the edge than I care for and can only do holes around 1-2x the material thickness, so I couldn't cut the bolt holes in 3/8" plate unless they were probably 5/8" in diameter.

rkcarguy
Posts: 1293
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2017 10:33 am
Location: Wa State

Re: 12" working railroad

Post by rkcarguy » Fri May 18, 2018 4:30 pm

This wouldn't fit in my project, but a guy can drool right?

http://www.kubotaengine.com/assets/docu ... 02_e4b.pdf

Glenn Brooks
Posts: 1799
Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2014 1:39 pm
Location: Woodinville, Washington

Re: 12" working railroad

Post by Glenn Brooks » Fri May 18, 2018 5:11 pm

Ryan, haha. Project creep starting to set in I see. Nice engine. Great power delivery for its size. I’ve looked on CL in the boating section from time to time, for a used 15 or 20 hp universal diesel. Same footprint as the old atomic 4, but of course, diesel, and a fine running, low speed engine. I think these were 1800 RPm models, if I remember correctly. Not so ear splitting as modern day high speed bangers at top RPM. They show up once in awhile, couple of times a year. But Iam not diligent enuf to wait in the lair until one passes by.

I can pull my old yard goat into the shop and take a closer look at the undercarriage - see exactly what I could do there for trucks. Maybe mid week next.

One immediate question - what are your general dimensions for your existing drawings. Height and length of sideframes mainly. Actually the overall length is the key. I could interpolate how big the trucks might need to be with this info.

BTW, the Whitcomb 60 ton loco on the Hawaiian Railway (36”NG) has an interesting drive chain - the wheels on each truck are connected via a main rod. So one set of drivers powers the other driver on the same truck, similar to steam loco main rods.
1708C443-1622-4276-AA0E-2502D070AE9A.jpeg

Also Here is a photo of the trucks for a Whitcomb 45 ton diesel electric, similar if not identical to your drawing. The wheel sets and bearings move up and down in the frame in a manner similar to what you designed and made up for the passenger car trucks we bought late last year.
D6B8C76C-03A7-4B33-9E8B-1BDFFA238F9A.jpeg
320D1EA0-60F6-432E-9508-C1B5B9AD417A.jpeg
Glenn
Moderator - Grand Scale Forum

Motive power : 1902 A.S.Campbell 4-4-0 American - 12 5/8" gauge, 1955 Ottaway 4-4-0 American 12" gauge

Ahaha, Retirement: the good life - drifting endlessly on a Sea of projects....

rkcarguy
Posts: 1293
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2017 10:33 am
Location: Wa State

Re: 12" working railroad

Post by rkcarguy » Mon May 21, 2018 10:22 am

Cool pictures Glenn!
The trucks there look like the ones on the SP #1 that Seniorg is modeling. I'm trying to make a plate version of the AAR truck actually. By having thinner plate truck sides instead of castings, allows me to have my 2" scale on 12" gage without having the trucks be too much wider than what they should be. The AAR trucks in the CAD screen shot are 26" long, 5-7/8" tall, and I'm using 7" wheels. The wheel-sets are on 16" centers. This is 1/6th scale from the information I've found online about the AAR truck, except I've upsized the wheels a little from 6-5/8" to 7" to have some meat for wear. At 6-1/2" diameter, my large sprocket and chain will be very close to the top of the rail otherwise.

rkcarguy
Posts: 1293
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2017 10:33 am
Location: Wa State

Re: 12" working railroad

Post by rkcarguy » Tue May 22, 2018 9:50 pm

Today I roto-blasted (basically shot peened) the bulkheads and flat bars for the steps, as it's important that the mill scale is removed for a good weld and good paint adhesion. When I blasted the first side of the 3/16" plate bulkheads, they warped badly and I thought I'd ruined them! But after doing the other side they flattened out again. I also grabbed some partial pails of Sherwin Williams Macropoxy 646 primer that will be good for a few more months, and our warehouse guy was happy to let me take it instead of dumping it into the hazmat barrel we have to pay to have taken away. I'll be priming my frame with this once I've done all the welding I need to on it.
All that's left to do is cope the ends of the channels cross-members and punch 6 holes and it will be time to weld the frame together. :D

Glenn Brooks
Posts: 1799
Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2014 1:39 pm
Location: Woodinville, Washington

Re: 12" working railroad

Post by Glenn Brooks » Tue May 22, 2018 10:21 pm

Ryan, I might have a lead on some 9” Od cast iron wheels. They could be turned down to a smaller OD ifneeded. A guy has rthe wheel pattern which would be used to cast the wheels. I’ve asked if the pattern is for sale. Hope to here back in a day or so. Iam thinking of having 16 wheels cast- 8 for a tender for my steam loco, And another 8 to redo the trucks on the yard goat I posted the other day.

Glenn
Moderator - Grand Scale Forum

Motive power : 1902 A.S.Campbell 4-4-0 American - 12 5/8" gauge, 1955 Ottaway 4-4-0 American 12" gauge

Ahaha, Retirement: the good life - drifting endlessly on a Sea of projects....

rkcarguy
Posts: 1293
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2017 10:33 am
Location: Wa State

Re: 12" working railroad

Post by rkcarguy » Tue May 22, 2018 10:59 pm

Glenn, I appreciate the offer but I want the ones on my locomotive at least, to be steel. We just did a purge of materials from our yard that weren't heat # identifiable, and I put my name on a large circular burnout chunk of 1" A572-G50 plate that is big enough to provide my wheels, just need to get it onto the burn table and the lathe when I have the time.

rkcarguy
Posts: 1293
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2017 10:33 am
Location: Wa State

Re: 12" working railroad

Post by rkcarguy » Tue May 29, 2018 7:15 pm

Today was supposed to be welding day for the frame, after work. As I pulled in this morning, things are looking awful dark....our transformer blew over the weekend and we had no 110V or 230V to the building. Select 480V welders still work, but no lights or power for grinding, saws, and so on. We're supposed to be back up late tonight. Thursday is the next day I can stay late so welding night has been re-scheduled.

rkcarguy
Posts: 1293
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2017 10:33 am
Location: Wa State

Re: 12" working railroad

Post by rkcarguy » Thu May 31, 2018 10:35 pm

Some pics of progress. First pic is the laser cut bulkheads(?), I'm not up to speed on my locomotive nomenclature.
Second pic is my super rusty free 4" channels spinning around in the roto-blaster on lunch break.
3rd pic is the not rusty anymore channels. These will be the cross-braces for my locomotive and riding car that will pick up the trucks.
4th pic is today, I stayed late at work and got some welding done. As I've designed these to be plug welded and ground smooth, no need to get out the TIG welder here. I ground some weld preps and then I went after it with the .045" dual shield. The web of the short chunks of 10" channel I used is warped, so I could not weld that in completely tonight. I just welded the ends, and then it will have to visit the press. After that, finish welding, grind smooth, and one more visit to the roto-blaster to give it a uniform finish again.
Attachments
bulkheads.jpg
bulkheadsweld.jpg
notrusty.jpg
rusty.jpg

Glenn Brooks
Posts: 1799
Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2014 1:39 pm
Location: Woodinville, Washington

Re: 12" working railroad

Post by Glenn Brooks » Fri Jun 01, 2018 12:15 am

Ryan, Nice work. Love to have one of those in my shop (roto blaster). Only problem is, what would I do with my life if I wasn’t derusting old junk yard steel all the time.

Great photos also!

Glenn
Moderator - Grand Scale Forum

Motive power : 1902 A.S.Campbell 4-4-0 American - 12 5/8" gauge, 1955 Ottaway 4-4-0 American 12" gauge

Ahaha, Retirement: the good life - drifting endlessly on a Sea of projects....

rkcarguy
Posts: 1293
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2017 10:33 am
Location: Wa State

Re: 12" working railroad

Post by rkcarguy » Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:55 pm

I love the roto-blaster, only thing is I've got to be careful as it will warp and/or destroy thinner stuff. Not sure how I'm going to deal with the 16ga sides of my riding car.....
Getting the scale off the steel is super important, even the best paint won't last long if it's applied over mill scale.
At this point I'm considering a couple ways of construction for the rest of the frame. Option A would be to weld plates inside the ends of the angles, and then bolt them to my bulkhead/stair fabrications. Option B is just to weld it all together in one big piece.
There isn't any gains to be had except if I bolted it together the 3 pieces would be +/- portable by hand. If I weld it all together it's going to become a 2 man or forklift job to move it. I have concerns the lap joint at the bolted connection would be a point for rust to start.

Post Reply