liability Insurance

Discuss park gauge trains and large scale miniature railways having track gauges from 8" to 24" gauge and designed at scales of 2" to the foot or greater - whether modeled for personal use, or purpose built for amusement park operation or private railroading.

Moderators: Glenn Brooks, Harold_V

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Topics may include: antique park gauge train restoration, preservation, and history; building new grand scale equipment from scratch; large scale miniature railway construction, maintenance, and safe operation; fallen flags; track, gauge, and equipment standards; grand scale vendor offerings; and, compiling an on-line motive power roster.
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RussellCofIdaho
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Re: liability Insurance

Post by RussellCofIdaho » Fri Jun 15, 2018 5:31 pm

Glenn Brooks wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 4:42 pm
For excellent safety practice and extremely low risk, we can draw on affiliation with the more than 100 live steam clubs around the US that have developed exceptional safety inspection and operating guidelines. Also the live steam hobby has a very supberb safety record and extremely low risk profile, compared to FRA operators or Amusement Park concessionaires. For example there has never been a reported boiler explosion, or injury, resulting from a hobby boiler in 75 years. So,I think, better to emulate the live steam model.

Glenn
All good points Glenn, that last fact is an excellent point and my main contention with their high rates, how much actual risk is there here? Thanks.
Russell Courtenay
Idaho - USA
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Big trains and big dreams...

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NP317
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Re: liability Insurance

Post by NP317 » Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:21 pm

Glenn:
To continue your thoughts on alignment with existing Live Steam clubs/operations, it might be helpful to point out to prospective insurance providers the recent change in Washington State Hobby Boiler inspection requirements. Basically, Washington State asked to de-regulate the hobby boiler inspections to the club level, because of the perfect safety record they have shown. 'Can't hurt if the Insurance Industry realized this fact.
~RussN

Glenn Brooks
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Re: liability Insurance

Post by Glenn Brooks » Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:36 pm

Russ, yes, starting to seriously think along the lines you mention. The key is to educate an agent, or some particular underwriter, about the live steam safety record, AND probably come up with an initial group of train owners willing to commit to policy costs. Building a comfort level is the only way to go in the insurance industry, I think. Then build up a sufficient insurance pool of private live steam RR owners to sustain the underwriting costs.

Glenn
Moderator - Grand Scale Forum

Motive power : 1902 A.S.Campbell 4-4-0 American - 12 5/8" gauge, 1955 Ottaway 4-4-0 American 12" gauge

Ahaha, Retirement: the good life - drifting endlessly on a Sea of projects....

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NP317
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Re: liability Insurance

Post by NP317 » Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:38 pm

Glenn:
A good plan.
~RN

timmy wheeler
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Re: liability Insurance

Post by timmy wheeler » Sat Jun 16, 2018 4:20 pm

Hi Glenn, when it is completed it will be about 400' of 7.5" gauge railroad on an urban lot in Southern California. It is for my own enjoyment, but being able to give rides occasionally to interested public would be nice (neighborhood good will). I have an electric locomotive and when completed -an steam 0-4-0. I don't think there would be more than 5 or 6 people on the train at any one time. It is basically a loop around the house and garage. Thanks for doing the legwork on this.

Timmy
illigitimi non carborundum

Glenn Brooks
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Re: liability Insurance

Post by Glenn Brooks » Sat Jun 16, 2018 5:58 pm

Thanks Timmy, sounds very similar to my set up. Only 12” gauge, so a little more work lifting rail.

I’ll keep pushing for some resolution. So far two people with industry contacts are interested in seeing what can be done. Hope to put together several other owners to participate also. Might make it more attractive for an agent to get involved.

Let’s stay in touch.

Glenn
Moderator - Grand Scale Forum

Motive power : 1902 A.S.Campbell 4-4-0 American - 12 5/8" gauge, 1955 Ottaway 4-4-0 American 12" gauge

Ahaha, Retirement: the good life - drifting endlessly on a Sea of projects....

rkcarguy
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Re: liability Insurance

Post by rkcarguy » Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:31 pm

I'd be concerned live steam may carry a higher premium?

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RussellCofIdaho
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Re: liability Insurance

Post by RussellCofIdaho » Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:42 pm

Thus far, response from insurer is frustratingly useless 'you need a minimum of 100 to start a pool and you wouldn't see a significant reduction in premiums for 5 years'!?!

I think I will take the week and do some research into this before I proceed as a hasty, antagonistic response to him will be of no use...
Russell Courtenay
Idaho - USA
unknownidaho.wordpress.com
Big trains and big dreams...

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Greg_Lewis
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Re: liability Insurance

Post by Greg_Lewis » Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:06 pm

For those of you who are pursuing this, you might check with the RC aircraft folks. As I understand it, they have insurance.
Greg Lewis, Prop.
Eyeball Engineering — Home of non-interchangeable parts.
Our motto: "That looks about right."
Celebrating 30 years of turning perfectly good metal into bits of useless scrap.

Glenn Brooks
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Re: liability Insurance

Post by Glenn Brooks » Mon Jun 18, 2018 10:40 pm

Russell,

I got an encouraging reply from one company who carries other Park guage RR policies. Let’s coordinate our outreach next week. E.g. make of list who we have contacted, what they say, etc.

One thing I’ve learned, insurance and freight forwarders have no benchmark policy costs. Often prices and terms are all over the board.

I think we can fairly quickly get a decent scope of the industry by looking under the rocks.

Glenn
Moderator - Grand Scale Forum

Motive power : 1902 A.S.Campbell 4-4-0 American - 12 5/8" gauge, 1955 Ottaway 4-4-0 American 12" gauge

Ahaha, Retirement: the good life - drifting endlessly on a Sea of projects....

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Benjamin Maggi
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Re: liability Insurance

Post by Benjamin Maggi » Tue Jun 19, 2018 8:45 am

Two insurance options have already been listed in this thread. One currently insures lots of railroad interests (museums, clubs, etc) and the other is trying to put together a program for live steam clubs. If you haven't already, I would suggest reaching out to those two first.
"One cannot learn to swim without getting his feet wet." - Benjamin Maggi
- Building: 7.25" gauge "Sweet Pea" named "Catherine"

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RussellCofIdaho
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Re: liability Insurance

Post by RussellCofIdaho » Tue Jun 19, 2018 10:57 am

Benjamin Maggi wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 8:45 am
Two insurance options have already been listed in this thread. One currently insures lots of railroad interests (museums, clubs, etc) and the other is trying to put together a program for live steam clubs. If you haven't already, I would suggest reaching out to those two first.
Though I haven't talked to merriam yet I have talked to two others and got the exact same (unacceptable) answer. I believe if you keep getting a wrong answer, maybe you're not asking the right question! So I need to research just what to ask.

Picked up my business liability quote today, looks pretty reasonable and complete, $2 million max for $76 a month, I am going to look up the exact wording of the complete policy exclusions to see if there is any possibility of getting a rider of some sort to cover the train. Even if it doubles my rate it would be reasonable!

No I will NOT bring it up to the agent until I have some idea what I am talking about....
Russell Courtenay
Idaho - USA
unknownidaho.wordpress.com
Big trains and big dreams...

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