Gauging interest in 3” or 3.75” scale DRGW 16” diameter Hand Brake Wheel castings

Discuss park gauge trains and large scale miniature railways having track gauges from 8" to 24" gauge and designed at scales of 2" to the foot or greater - whether modeled for personal use, or purpose built for amusement park operation or private railroading.

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Topics may include: antique park gauge train restoration, preservation, and history; building new grand scale equipment from scratch; large scale miniature railway construction, maintenance, and safe operation; fallen flags; track, gauge, and equipment standards; grand scale vendor offerings; and, compiling an on-line motive power roster.
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Re: Gauging interest in 3” or 3.75” scale DRGW 16” diameter Hand Brake Wheel castings

Post by LIALLEGHENY » Fri Oct 04, 2019 1:45 pm

On my 3" scale Berkshire the tires/wheels are 1-1/2" wide. Including the counterweights, the drivers range from 2-3/8" tp 2-7/8" wide. I believe the 3" Hudson drawings show tires being 1-3/4" but I'll have to confirm that.

Nyle

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Re: Gauging interest in 3” or 3.75” scale DRGW 16” diameter Hand Brake Wheel castings

Post by rkcarguy » Fri Oct 04, 2019 2:27 pm

Glenn, is that what you are using for track?

https://www.ez2rail.com/12-lb-asce-rail

If so, it's like $2.50/#, they are pretty proud of that rail.
It makes sense that they would widen the blind wheels so they don't drop a wheel on curves. I understand that some of the counterweights bulge out from the wheel requiring a wider piece of stock or attachment of the counterweight to the face of the wheel.
The 7.5" gauge flange width always seemed small to me while the wheels are excessively wide, but I understand that to allow tighter radius and more slop in gauge a wider wheel gives additional safeguard against derailment.

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Re: Gauging interest in 3” or 3.75” scale DRGW 16” diameter Hand Brake Wheel castings

Post by Glenn Brooks » Fri Oct 04, 2019 3:51 pm

Nyle, yes, Iam using 12# rail, although not from this vendor. My stuff is original with the Ottaway, and even earlier . Some sticks have a 1919 date cast into the web. And BTW a few are in perfect condition - no rust, no corrison, no pitting, nada- just shines.
. No idea where they came from but they are superb. Others I had to scrap because of wholesale flaking in the flange and head. 12# is scarce, but turns up used, aka t rail, once in awhile

If I were buying new, I would order out of a China. They sell thousands of tons of 8 kg rail annually to Africa and India for small scale railways.

From what I’ve read there’s no logic to 7.5” ga wheel standards- just what some early day guy decided to use. Or alternatively, the story about the West Coast people doing it differently to mess with East Coast crowd. Seems like we’re stuck with that though.
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Motive power : 1902 A.S.Campbell 4-4-0 American - 12 5/8" gauge, 1955 Ottaway 4-4-0 American 12" gauge

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Re: Gauging interest in 3” or 3.75” scale DRGW 16” diameter Hand Brake Wheel castings

Post by LIALLEGHENY » Fri Oct 04, 2019 3:56 pm

IBLS wheel standards , 12" gauge/3" scale -- tread width 1-1/4" minimum
15" gauge --3" scale---tread width 1-1/2" minimum
7.25/7.5 ---3/4" minimum
Nyle

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Re: Gauging interest in 3” or 3.75” scale DRGW 16” diameter Hand Brake Wheel castings

Post by rkcarguy » Fri Oct 04, 2019 4:06 pm

Glenn, my 1" wheel width will work ( not ideal though) on your 12# track, as my tires are wide enough to extend past the crown (center) of your rail by at least 1/8". You'd have to have a spot where the gauge opened up to 12-5/8" for my train to "fall in".

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Re: Gauging interest in 3” or 3.75” scale DRGW 16” diameter Hand Brake Wheel castings

Post by NP317 » Fri Oct 04, 2019 8:10 pm

Different width blind center drivers:
Go visit the Mt. Rainier Scenic railroad Mineral, WA, shops
Polson Logging (Rayonier) #70 2-8-2 has blind and wide center driver tires.
Go get measurements for specifics. 'Would make a fun day trip, too.
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Re: Gauging interest in 3” or 3.75” scale DRGW 16” diameter Hand Brake Wheel castings

Post by Harlock » Sun Oct 06, 2019 4:58 pm

For narrow gauge equipment, you can make the wheel width as much as you want, as long as it's on the wider side of what's needed. the extra width to the outside does nothing good or bad, there's no interference. If you have standard gauge equipment with skinny tires designed for gentler curves than what would be experienced in scale running, then yes, they need to be wide enough for the center drivers to not fall through the gauge. For 7.5" gauge, most live steam tracks are actually slightly broad gauged to help tracking of larger equipment. (Most 7.5" gauge tracks around here are actually 7 9/16 or 7 5/8, at least on the curves and often on the straights throughout.) If you build to IBLS wheel width as a minimum (0.75" for 7.5" gauge track) you should be fine. For 15" gauge there is no wheel width spec for IBLS.

For our one-off 3" scale, 9" gauge railroad, our wheels are 1.5" wide, on our own custom aluminum rail profile that is similar to scaled down 8lb mining rail (and real 8lb rail in a few places)

Looking at Erich Thomsen's dimensions for 15" gauge, 5" scale, the total wheel width should be 3.0625 minimum for driving wheels, 11/16 of that is the flange profile. Car wheels are spec'd at 1/16" thinner, although I'm not really sure why. At that size it's just splitting hairs.
Last edited by Harlock on Sun Oct 06, 2019 5:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Gauging interest in 3” or 3.75” scale DRGW 16” diameter Hand Brake Wheel castings

Post by Harlock » Sun Oct 06, 2019 5:00 pm

Back to the topic at hand, I might be interested in 3" scale brake castings if the price is reasonable. I can currently 3D print them, but it's cheaper to get bulk castings than printings in metal. Most of my handbrake hardware is in plastic for that reason.
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Re: Gauging interest in 3” or 3.75” scale DRGW 16” diameter Hand Brake Wheel castings

Post by 0351 » Sun Oct 06, 2019 10:18 pm

The 3" scale car wheels I'm using are 1-1/8" across the tread, 1/2" tall flange that tapers from 3/8" at the base to 1/4" at the outside edge. These are same wheels that Todd Swan has machined up for his 1/4" scale F Units to use with 12lb rail.

Harlock, I really leaning towards casting them in 3.75" scale. I may be wrong, but outside of you and me, I don't think there much in interest in 3" scale narrow gauge.

Not looking to make it rich by selling a few castings, however I would like to sell enough to make the investment feasible on my end. Current looking at $500 for 3-D printed split patterns. I think once I have the castings made, shipped to me and then shipped out they will run $75 per set . Set would include brake wheel, ratchet and pawl, lower stirrup .
Should be good quality bronze castings that will be easy to clean up a flap wheel and files.
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Re: Gauging interest in 3” or 3.75” scale DRGW 16” diameter Hand Brake Wheel castings

Post by rkcarguy » Mon Oct 07, 2019 1:58 am

Most of the money would be in the bronze wouldn't it?
Consider aluminum or cast iron?

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Re: Gauging interest in 3” or 3.75” scale DRGW 16” diameter Hand Brake Wheel castings

Post by 0351 » Mon Oct 07, 2019 8:58 am

Yes, Aluminum would be cheaper. If someone wanted them for looks, that would be the way to go. I could have a few sets cast in aluminum as well. The plan for my railroad is to haul people and pumpkins, so I was going for durability.
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