Another New Guy wants a 10-wheeler

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Soot n' Cinders
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Re: Another New Guy wants a 10-wheeler

Postby Soot n' Cinders » Fri Feb 17, 2017 1:14 pm

I'd be wary of the Americans unless you go with a 2.5" one like the Eureka, which there are castings for if I remember right. An American won't pull more than a couple cars and really won't like grades. The little engines Americans struggle to pull themselves and the engineer up more than about a 1% grade
-Tristan

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LVRR2095
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Re: Another New Guy wants a 10-wheeler

Postby LVRR2095 » Fri Feb 17, 2017 2:15 pm

Soot n' Cinders wrote:I'd be wary of the Americans unless you go with a 2.5" one like the Eureka, which there are castings for if I remember right. An American won't pull more than a couple cars and really won't like grades. The little engines Americans struggle to pull themselves and the engineer up more than about a 1% grade

There is a big difference between the Little Engines American and the RR Supply and Allen Models Americans.
The L-E one is actually the C.P. Huntington locomotive stretched out a little bit to add another driver.
If a 3/4" scale locomotive can pull a load like that shown in the attached.....a RR Supply or Allen 4-4-0 should have no problem hauling a respectable load.

Keith
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3 - 1/2" gauge loco

Soot n' Cinders
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Re: Another New Guy wants a 10-wheeler

Postby Soot n' Cinders » Fri Feb 17, 2017 6:21 pm

LVRR2095 wrote:
Soot n' Cinders wrote:I'd be wary of the Americans unless you go with a 2.5" one like the Eureka, which there are castings for if I remember right. An American won't pull more than a couple cars and really won't like grades. The little engines Americans struggle to pull themselves and the engineer up more than about a 1% grade

There is a big difference between the Little Engines American and the RR Supply and Allen Models Americans.
The L-E one is actually the C.P. Huntington locomotive stretched out a little bit to add another driver.
If a 3/4" scale locomotive can pull a load like that shown in the attached.....a RR Supply or Allen 4-4-0 should have no problem hauling a respectable load.

Keith


I agree that the RR Supply and Allen Americans can pull respectable loads on flat track, but in my experience even those wont pull more than maybe 3 people up 1-1.5% grade. The ruling grade at my home club is 2% with some spots of 2.5% and even the larger Americans dont do all that well. They're just too slippery. So for 1.5"/1.6" scale I would recommend a mogul or larger if you plan on dealing with any decent grades.
-Tristan

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LVRR2095
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Re: Another New Guy wants a 10-wheeler

Postby LVRR2095 » Fri Feb 17, 2017 7:28 pm

Soot n' Cinders wrote:
I agree that the RR Supply and Allen Americans can pull respectable loads on flat track, but in my experience even those wont pull more than maybe 3 people up 1-1.5% grade. The ruling grade at my home club is 2% with some spots of 2.5% and even the larger Americans dont do all that well. They're just too slippery. So for 1.5"/1.6" scale I would recommend a mogul or larger if you plan on dealing with any decent grades.

So you are saying that an inch and a half scale American won't pull as much as a 3/4" scale locomotive?
Keith

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Re: Another New Guy wants a 10-wheeler

Postby Soot n' Cinders » Fri Feb 17, 2017 7:45 pm

Depends on the locomotive. Americans don't exactly have a great wheel arrangement for traction with basically all the weight of the front on the pilot truck and not on the drivers. Whereas a pacific can be set to have the vast magority of their weight on the drivers giving them better tractive effort.
And most 3/4" scale tracks don't have grades like my home club. I doubt that 3/4" scale pacific could pull much of a load up a 2% grade
-Tristan

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LVRR2095
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Re: Another New Guy wants a 10-wheeler

Postby LVRR2095 » Fri Feb 17, 2017 8:15 pm

Fill the domes with lead and a 4-4-0 will pull better. And very few clubs have 2% grades.
If any large number of clubs have 2% grades then a Shay might be the best choice.
Keith

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Fender
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Re: Another New Guy wants a 10-wheeler

Postby Fender » Fri Feb 17, 2017 10:00 pm

I doubt that the O.P. would be interested in an American 4-4-0, if the larger drivers on the Allen ten-wheeler are not to his taste. This is why I suggested the 2-8-0. Actually the smaller drivers are an advantage when going up grades.
Dan Watson

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Re: Another New Guy wants a 10-wheeler

Postby Soot n' Cinders » Fri Feb 17, 2017 10:19 pm

LVRR2095 wrote:Fill the domes with lead and a 4-4-0 will pull better. And very few clubs have 2% grades.
If any large number of clubs have 2% grades then a Shay might be the best choice.
Keith


Lead a common thing to do around me. One of our members had a mogul that had 1/4" lead sheet wrapped around the boiler in place of insulation. Theres all sorts of places to hide lead to increase traction, but it needs to be over the drivers or where equalization with put the weight on the drivers. Putting the weight where most of it will go on pony wheels wont help.
As for grades, a large number of clubs I know of have at least 1.5% grades, even down in Florida! 2% is on the high side for mainline locomotives but is by no means shay only territory. But things like Americans and Atlantics aren't exactly well suited to those grades, they really were not built to be mountain climbers. A mogul, 10 wheeler, or consolidation would be better suited for that because of the increase weight on the drivers. Just look at the full size railroads. Americans couldn't handle but a few cars in the mountains, so they were relegated to flatter track and lighter service like passenger or mail.
Even as heavy as the Allen American is, it will be out pulled by the Allen Mogul. Same weight and total number of wheels, but a lot of weight has been taken off the pilot truck. I know a stock Allen mogul will pull 3-4 people up 2% all day long. There's a reason the mogul is the most commonly built of the Allen locomotives, not the American.
-Tristan

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trivettj
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Re: Another New Guy wants a 10-wheeler

Postby trivettj » Sat Feb 18, 2017 12:35 am

I Think I might have bought the mogul that had the boiler wrapped with lead if it was t Parkinson that had it. once I fully overhauled the mogul that little thing pulled like a tank it would pull way more than anyone would imagine so I agree completely with a mogul being a good mountain engine if weight is added.

Soot n' Cinders
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Re: Another New Guy wants a 10-wheeler

Postby Soot n' Cinders » Sat Feb 18, 2017 1:18 am

trivettj wrote:I Think I might have bought the mogul that had the boiler wrapped with lead if it was t Parkinson that had it. once I fully overhauled the mogul that little thing pulled like a tank it would pull way more than anyone would imagine so I agree completely with a mogul being a good mountain engine if weight is added.


That's the one! Originally built by Don Fite,T Parkinson ended up with it, good to know it's gone to a home where it's finally getting a rebuild. Would be great to see that engine again.
-Tristan

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John_S
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Re: Another New Guy wants a 10-wheeler

Postby John_S » Sat Feb 18, 2017 3:11 pm

My mogul pulls very well, despite not taking the other half of that lead sheet from Don Fite -- yes, he still has it in his shop!

https://youtu.be/CYqWtttcJo0


Glenn Brooks
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Re: Another New Guy wants a 10-wheeler

Postby Glenn Brooks » Sat Feb 18, 2017 5:09 pm

Interesting discussion about 4-4-0's. If I remember correctly, the original prototypes reportedly were also noteworthy for spinning their drivers. Seems to be a characteristic of the design. The latter 4-4-0's - Empire Express, and models such as the Cagney, for example don't seem to have this problem. Better weight and balance I suppose. or simply more weight :?

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Glenn
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Motive power : 1902 A.S.Campbell 4-4-0 American - 12 5/8" gauge, 1955 Ottaway 4-4-0 American 12" gauge

Ahaha, Retirement: the good life - drifting endlessly on a Sea of projects....


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