Customs costs at the border

[Bill Yoder]

Friends - What do you think the customs people will do with me if I bring along a 3/4" Virginia 4-4-0 to the States at the end of 2015? I would be coming from Germany by air and have the loco as a carry-on or as a fragile shipment. I won't bring the tender along. I want to do some work on it during my 2-3 months stay, then take it along back with me to Germany.

Would it help if I can prove that I am taking the loco back out of the country? It is about 85% complete. I can prove what I paid for it in the UK.

Thanks for your help!

Bill Yoder

[Rich_Carlstedt]

Bill
I usually stop at the border of my origin country (USA) and check in there first.
I carry pictures of my models and tell them I will return with them and do not want to have "re-entry" issues
They have stamped the photos , but sometimes tell me it's OK as is. This disturbs me, so I usually request a second time for verification.
The country I am entering can sometimes question why you have the model and I display the "Origin notes" and they seem to be satisfied that I am not going to sell my models ( their major concern).
That's just my experience.
Others may have more definite experience

Rich

When I have purchased steam engine parts in a foriegn country and plan to return with them, I find it important to say they are iron steam engine castings ( that carries the lowest duty rate and may even be zero)
Do not call it a kit ,or hobby item , or model....it is after all a steam engine !

[Bill Shields]

Things are a bit different when working with aircraft...what you can do at the border, driving -> is very different than flying.

I CAUTION YOU about bringing anything (especially into the cabin) that LOOKS LIKE it can be a pressurized container. A LIVE STEAM BOILER can easily be thought of as something else - possibly explosive. I would NOT attempt to bring the boiler with you to the USA. The boiler, if in your luggage, may simply be 'removed' and you will never see it again.

Basically, if you cannot open and LOOK INSIDE of something, there is a VERY GOOD CHANCE that you will NOT be allowed to carry it onto an airplane.

I routinely carry 5" copper tubing out of the UK...but since it is a piece of pipe, clearly open at each end, I do not have problems -> but I am careful not to carry anything that might attract attention.

Customs:

As far as USA CUSTOMS is concerned, there is NO WAY that you can PROVE that you are carrying the item OUT OF THE COUNTRY, except by....carrying it out of the country.

Get something from the German government that shows you brought it with you from Germany so that you do not have trouble with GERMAN CUSTOMS.

The USA CUSTOMS will not bother you LEAVING the USA....they do not care...BUT SECURITY will be your headache (boiler again).

The chances are that the USA CUSTOMS will not bother you ENTERING the USA, but you need to be prepared, especially if your luggage appears to be HEAVY. I was once asked about a propeller for an ULTRALIGHT (rather long and obvious) that I was carrying and would have had to pay $$$ -> except that I could show that it had ORIGINALLY been manufactured in the USA.

Technically, if you are not selling (or giving) the item, there should be no duty -> but that is up to interpretation by the individual CUSTOMS OFFICER and you may be asked to post a bond ($$$) that will be returned to you (months after you return the item to Germany).

Any document from Germany has no influence with USA customs. If the USA OFFICER decides you need to pay a bond ($$$) then you have to either pay it or leave the item with them until you leave the USA. Where you originally purchased it is of no interest to USA CUSTOMS.

Bringing the item into the USA for DEMONSTRATION / EDUCATIONAL use is a better idea.

If it were me, I would use the idea of bringing it to the USA for anything except 'work'. This is likely to raise a warning with the CUSTOMS.

Have some documentation about a local LIVE STEAM club with you to help convince them of your story.

Do not show them any documentation about a club that would make them think that you COULD sell it.

HOWEVER...if you had an invoice that showed that you ORIGINALLY PURCHASED the item from the USA....that would be a different story... items RETURNING to the USA are very different.

USA CUSTOMS only accepts US $$ or a bank check on a USA bank. They do not take credit cards (that I know of).

Duty can be as high as 3% of the value of the item...and value is ????? -> cost of original parts from the UK? THAT INVOICE may be helpful.

[gcarsen]

My customs story,,
I purchased 6 huge aircraft ticket counter display models off of Ebay a few years ago., they are 6 foot long, clear sides showing all the interior detail, lighted, the works. they came out of Toronto Canada. got a sweet deal on them being air freighted into Seattle. I mean this where shipped in boxes larger than caskets, plywood crates 8 foot long, 2 foot by 2 foot! the guy worked for Air Canada and had a sweet discount, like $75.00 each box to overnight!!!
so I go up to Seattle to pick them up, had to go through customs, talk about a head scratcher!! after telling the customs agent what they where. he could not believe they needed boxes that huge to ship. explained all the details, the size and use. he could not figure out why any one wanted them!! or what they where, just a big model airplane?? let alone 6 of them !! he went through the whole customs book to find the classification and rate,,, he could not find them anywhere,, he had the whole office searching!!!!
then in a thought I explained to him , these models where build over a spread of years, the 707 was from 1957, the Dc-8 was mid 70's, the 747 was about the same, 767 90's, on and on. Air Canada had purchased them in the states and imported them ( new probably 15 to 30 k ea.!!) they where done with them and had surplused them. and that they where originally from the states and I was just buying them and bringing them back!! once he got the picture that they had originated here years ago, and I was just bringing them back!! he stamped the papers and said to get out of there!! no cost!
that started step 2 of the adventure, headed home I stopped at McChord Air Base to stop at the air museum there,,, not a good idea!! learned MP's with drawn M16's do not like Crates in Back of pick ups!!

Life is always an adventure! mine, I think I get others share at times!!

Grant

[sbalkum]

Just a few weeks ago, I returned from Germany and the meet in Karlsruhe. My carry-on was a 1" scale bobber that rode in the overhead compartment. From Texas to Germany, neither Heathrow nor Munich customs questioned it. On the way back, neither Heathrow nor Austin customs questioned it. I did put the wheels and couplers in my suitcase. There was no tag or any other indication that anyone opened my suitcase at all.

Granted, it wasn't a sealed metal pipe, but it was large and noticeable for a carry-on. I carried it in an open top, padded, black fabric bag. The cupola was clearly visible. Heathrow security on the way back did pause on it and wipe it down, and several screeners asked questions about the hobby. No other security screeners (Austin, Munich, Berlin) even looked twice.

Frankly, I was surprised at the lack of attention given to such an odd object going through these supposedly secure checkpoints.

-Stephen

[Pipescs]

Five time thru Customs.

Started building this in 1981 while pulling a USMC tour in Japan. Took it to the states thru customs the first time as a rough frame. A lot of talking to explain it.

Over the next 10 years it went to and from Japan four more times. Every time was a different story. Sometimes easy, but once they threatened to completely disassemble it to ensure it was not full of drugs. I learned to package it in aluminum parts foil and put it into the classified Aircraft parts shipment.

If it was me I would look into shipping the engine separate. Postal Customs seems to be easier to deal with than TSA. You can declare the value quiet low for customs

My other TSA story involved four 6 inch cast iron car wheels in my hand carry. Took all morning to convince TSA that they were not to be used as a bludgeoning device and that I was not a crazy crackpot.

[Goose]

Hello Bill,

since I travelled a couple of times with modelrailroad-equipment outside the EU, I have some experience.

Their are two ways to handle this:

1. You can go to the local IHK (chamber of commerce) and request a Carnet ATA (Carnet Admission Temporaire/Temporary Admission).
This is like a passport for person job-tools, sample-goods or exhibition goods. You have to fill out some forms, declare the value, and than you the Carnet will be given to you. You have to pay for that (depending of the realistic declared value, since they guarantee the return of the good). It is a good idea to make one or two print-outs of photos, which can be added to the carnet.
After that, you have to go to the local custom-office in Germany with the exhibition good and the Carnet, and they will check and declare, that it's origin from Germany.
When you leave germany, you have to the custom office at the airport and show them the carnet. The will remove one form and give you some written statement in the carnet.
At the US customs you have to give them the carnet again and they will do the same as the german.
When you return, the same. First US custom and after you are back in Germany the German custom.
And when you returned home, you have to send the carnet back to the IHK, so that the can close the case.

2. The other way may be a little bit easier.
Since their is no tax or custom-fee on toy-trains (at least it was in 2003), you can write down a bill to youself or some you are visiting with a fictive value of the engine.
To get it back into germany without problems, you have to go to the local custom-office and request an INF 3 form from them. With this form they declare, that the good is from Germany. You have to show them the good, and perhaps the will add a custom-seal to the good. Also a good idea is to give the one or two photo-printouts to be added to the INF 3 form.

I used the INF 3 with the bill in 2003, as I shipped my Speeder to Los Angeles (to my friend Rudy van Wingen) and later back home.
Since the carnet only is valid, when you travel together with the good this was the only way.
Also the german custom information tell, that for expensive things like photo or video equipment, computer and something else it would be good idea to the an INF 3 declaration before your travel, so that you will have no problem when you return.

The Carnet requests a lot of time going from one custom office to the other - I did that two years ago, as we travelled with our On3 layout to Switzerland for a show in Adliswil. I had to cross everytime two times the Autobahn at the border to reach first the german and later the suisse custom-office, and the same on my trip back to germany -, but overall it worked.

[Bill Shields]

Ah...good information....pay for the Carnet in Germany!

good luck with this in the USA unless you are staying in a big city where there is an international airport, border crossing or sea port:

"you have to go to the local custom-office and request an INF 3 form from them"

[Goose]

The payment is for the insurance, which is included in the carnet. We payed in 2012 78.45 € für a value of close to 10,000 €.

And for the INF 3, you will find local custom offices all over germany. Not as much as before, but as example the custom-office for my office address is around 10 miles away and from my home address it's nearly the same distance.

And a similar form is available at the custom-office at the airport, too.