Looking for Harry Haas ATSF Northern design

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johnpenn74
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Looking for Harry Haas ATSF Northern design

Post by johnpenn74 » Wed Sep 07, 2016 11:10 pm

Fellow live steamers
During my latest trip to California / Arizona I got interested in ATSF Northerns. I am wondering if any design drawings / information to Harry Haas's 4-8-4 has survived and is available? Castings? Or was something else the base for this engine? L.E. castings etc?
Any prototype info for ATSF around?

JP
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sf484lals2016.jpg
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Harlock
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Re: Looking for Harry Haas ATSF Northern design

Post by Harlock » Wed Sep 07, 2016 11:41 pm

I can ask his son if he might remember what he based it on.

Here are some pictures I took of it at Bitter Creek. Now owned by Greg Casford.

Gorgeous engine.
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16-07-04_bitter_creek_july_4_meet-.jpg
16-07-04_bitter_creek_july_4_meet-6458.jpg
16-07-04_bitter_creek_july_4_meet-6593.jpg
16-07-04_bitter_creek_july_4_meet-6268.jpg
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Harlock
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Re: Looking for Harry Haas ATSF Northern design

Post by Harlock » Thu Sep 08, 2016 1:05 am

Spoke to Harry Jr. He said it is mostly fabricated (a lot of his engines were like that) and he does not know what drawing sources he used.

I am guessing he scaled from prototype drawings.

-M
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Pontiacguy1
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Re: Looking for Harry Haas ATSF Northern design

Post by Pontiacguy1 » Thu Sep 08, 2016 6:12 am

I thought that Harry built two of them... One for himself and one for Ken Casford. Am I remembering that wrong?

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cbrew
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Re: Looking for Harry Haas ATSF Northern design

Post by cbrew » Thu Sep 08, 2016 8:44 am

Haas did built two. 2925 for him self and 2926 that is now owned by the Casford family.
I have scans of the build at home., I was just a kid when these where built. but i remember going with Dad when he would drive up and help Haas with the project.
it would be reasonable to compare castings from little engines, the heavy Northern would have some common castings that could be used as a base
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Re: Looking for Harry Haas ATSF Northern design

Post by cbrew » Thu Sep 08, 2016 10:34 am

If it is not live steam. its not worth it.

DJSteamer3017
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Re: Looking for Harry Haas ATSF Northern design

Post by DJSteamer3017 » Thu Sep 08, 2016 11:10 am

The Good thing about these northerns is that both the Santa Fe 2925 and 2926, which are the 4-8-4s that Harry Haas, Sr. Constructed, survive today. 2925 is at the California State Railroad Museum in Sacramento. The 2926 is being restored to operating conditions in Albuquerque, NM.

Here's a video of the 1.5" Scale 2926 at the Riverside Live Steamers.
https://youtu.be/X3Gg8GmqU9E



The 1.5" Santa Fe 2925 was the first live steam locomotive I ever rode behind at Los Angeles Live Steamers. Peter Nott is the owner of the 2925, and has a matching set of Santa Fe Pullmans. I understand that the 2925 and its Pullman Consist are at Bitter Creek Western now.

In the Picture blow there's a 3rd Santa Fe northern that was owned by Doug Chacey, original owner of the Bitter Creek Western Railroad. I read that the 3rd Santa Fe Northern 2929 is at LALS. If anyone can care to elaborate.

A little food for thought.

Keep on Steamin' My Friends.

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cbrew
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Re: Looking for Harry Haas ATSF Northern design

Post by cbrew » Thu Sep 08, 2016 11:15 am

i am 99% sure, Harry did not build 2929. iirc that is Doug on it and was shot at bitter creek,,, any of the locals can confirm that.
after the northern's, the american and k27 was built. after that, my life removed me from that area and i had lost track
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Miserlou57
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Re: Looking for Harry Haas ATSF Northern design

Post by Miserlou57 » Thu Sep 08, 2016 1:11 pm

Previous discussion here on Chaski concluded the 2929 was indeed built by someone other than Haas. IIRC it was someone in the Midwest, but the engine went to Doug Chancey of Bittercreek fame. Last I recall the 2929 was at LALS.

From my recollection, 2929 was visibly different from the other two. We are getting into rivet-counter territory, but upon close examination, 25/26 have a cab that sticks up above the boiler profile a bit more than the prototypes. 2929's boiler and cab profile looked a bit more flush. But it's been a long time and I could be wrong.

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cbrew
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Re: Looking for Harry Haas ATSF Northern design

Post by cbrew » Thu Sep 08, 2016 1:23 pm

Miserlou57 wrote:Previous discussion here on Chaski concluded the 2929 was indeed built by someone other than Haas. IIRC it was someone in the Midwest, but the engine went to Doug Chancey of Bittercreek fame. Last I recall the 2929 was at LALS.

From my recollection, 2929 was visibly different from the other two. We are getting into rivet-counter territory, but upon close examination, 25/26 have a cab that sticks up above the boiler profile a bit more than the prototypes. 2929's boiler and cab profile looked a bit more flush. But it's been a long time and I could be wrong.
and to add the 2929 has the raise able stack :)
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Re: Looking for Harry Haas ATSF Northern design

Post by JKreider » Thu Sep 08, 2016 3:11 pm

The 2929 was built about 1990 by a guy who's last name was Stewart and lived in the St Louis area.
It was built for Jim Robison of Enid, OK. I helped Jim work on it and correct much bad workmanship.
Jim sold the engine, about 1996, to Doug Chauncy who founded the Bitter Creek Western Railroad.
Jim Robison died in an auto accident in 1998.
As was pointed out, the engine now resides with a member of LALS and has not run in some time.
Both of Harry Hass's engines were all fabricated except for the drivers, pilot truck frame, and tender truck castings if I remember correctly. I did a fair amount of work on both engines while they were owned by the Casfords and Peter Nott.

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cbrew
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Re: Looking for Harry Haas ATSF Northern design

Post by cbrew » Thu Sep 08, 2016 10:25 pm

here are a couple of the scanned pictures, not great but its what i have
Frame.jpg
northern.jpg
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