Another New Guy wants a 10-wheeler

[BlackStack]

Hello gentlemen.

I've lately caught the urge to build a live steam locomotive, and I've been starting to study up on them, and joined this site in hopes of getting advice and networking. I am amazed at the information that is available here, and on YouTube. Mr Sclavi in particular, you are amazing in your teachings/demonstrations.

A little about me; I've been around metalworking most of my adult life. I was in the votech machining program in high school, started working in machine shops and factories after I got out of the Marines. Spent a decade or so doing mostly CNC work. Got into NDT and spent another decade doing ultrasonic, eddy current, mag particle, and flux leakage testing and inspection for a steel mill. Learned a bit of welding along the way, Stick, MIG and a bit of TIG. I was even certified in FCAW 3GU and 4G positions for a while. Now I work as a maintenance machinist, so I am pretty confident I have the skills to build a loco, just need to learn the hows and whys of the locomotive's systems. Sorry if I ask some dumb questions trying to learn them.

I'm thinking I'd like to build an old-timey ten wheeler, possibly a wood-burner. I haven't decided on scale yet. I'm leaning toward a smaller scale as it would be cheaper (I think?), but all the tracks in my area are private, and 7-1/2" gauge. Not that that really matters. I'd probably have to travel to run, or have my own track anyway... If there are any live steam clubs in the 4 corners area, I'm not aware of them.

I found a set of drawings for the LBSC Virginia, and I was thinking maybe I could scale them up to 4-3/4" gauge, add another set of drivers, and change the details a bit to make what I see in my head. If I went with 7-1/2" gauge, maybe an Allen Mogul would be a better starting point?

Anyone have any thoughts?

[NP317]

I recommend simply biting the proverbial bullet and building an Allen Ten Wheeler!
https://allenmodels.com

This is a well proven design, and appropriate for a first locomotive project.
And Steve Alley, new "Keeper" of the Allen line of locomotives, has made more improvements to the castings by changing many from aluminum to cast iron.
There are many Allen TWs in existence, and a plethora of builders' information available here, and else where.

I followed this advice and built an Allen Ten Wheeler, and have enjoyed over 550 miles (full-sized!) of problem-free train operations.
And given the large number of 7.5" gauge railroads across N America, there are lots of opportunities to enjoy the Live Steam brotherhood.
Fantastic people are in this "hobby," as represented by this discussion board.

Logistics:
My first task after deciding to build this locomotive was to get the appropriate truck to haul it: A Ford Ranger with 6-foot bed. That's the minimum useful, after adding additional leaf springs to the rear axle! The locomotive weight w/ tender+accessories is close to 700 lbs.

So get started! Live Steam railroading has been one of the most rewarding adventures I've experienced.
~RN

[ccvstmr]

Hello Blackstack...and welcome to the forum! Think you made one of your best choices from the start...seek out information. Would seem you have the background to build a locomotive (of any size), but if you're area is mostly 7.5" gauge...perhaps that is the size to build. Not much fun to build something if you can't get out and enjoy it.

If you're looking for something to tuck under your arm and go steam someplace...you would be hard pressed to find any sized steam loco to do that with. That Allen Moguls and 10-wheelers are a good size for just that. Not too small, not too large. I purchased a used Allen 10 wheeler that was out shopped in 1995 and have been running this now going on 17 years. Maintenance is catching up, but when anything is serviced...improvements are made as deemed necessary. I probably run 100-150 miles (actual) per year. Not bad for living in the snow belt.

If there any beginner advice to share...before you take the plunge...get out to other clubs. Meet your new hobby friends. ASK QUESTIONS! Ask the same question to various persons and see what kind of responses you get. In the end, whatever you decided to do...your decision is final. Look for other hobbyists in the area you live. You will find that material selection if critical. You can't use 1018 CRS for everything. Stainless steels have their place as well. Knowing the right material for the right application is important...along with your machining abilities and capabilities.

As you start down the track in this hobby...hope you'll keep us posted and share the results of your efforts. Carl B.

[Karl_Losely]

The first thing I would say is welcome to the hobby.

The second would be to build what you want to build.

Having said that, I would mention Mercer Locomotive Works' 0-4-0 in 7.25 or 7.5 gauge. It is small, but will pull like a mule since all weight is on the drivers. Dave currently has the casting set available at a very reasonable price. While the prototype was a Camelback style locomotive the model can be built as a rear cab version also. Being it is not a big locomotive it is easily transportable also. Other options are any of the Allen locomotives. They were designed to be easy to build, operate and repair when needed.

Don't be afraid to ask questions, even if you think it is a dumb one. We were all there at some point, and the amount of knowledge available on this board is incredible. You will also find that there are multiple ways to do almost anything, but some work better than others.


Karl

[Glenn Brooks]

Hi, and welcome to the hobby. The Mercer 0-4-0 is a good looking loco. As is the 10 wheeler.

Another approach would be to look on Discover Live steam and buy a used loco for rebuilding. Learn how to run it, get some experience how the parts all work together, what wears out, how to improve, etc. then tear it down, and build a new one one - or different style- based on your experience and original measurements.

Highly recommend joining a club in your area and network with others who will be a ready source of answers and assistance for anything you might need to know.

Regards
Glenn

[KenG]

Hi BlackStack,

I am a member of the Colorado live steamers, a but far from the Four Corners but I do not know of any clubs down your way. You should contact Tom Arzberger in Pagosa Springs. I am building one of Tom's C21 2.5 inch scale consolidations and while I don't think that is what you are looking for, Tom has some neat stuff in his shop and should have some contacts in your area.

Like others have said, 7-1/2" gauge is much easier to find in your part of the world and there are some awesome tracks a day or two's drive away.

Also like the others who are giving advice here I have heard nothing but good about the Allen locomotives and am thinking I might follow up the C21 with a narrow gauge mogul, either based on the Allen mogul or the new model Steve has mentioned. Look at the Fitchburg Northern as well. Small compared with other 2.5" scale equipment but much easier to move around including the parts when you work in the shop.

Lastly Dave is giving away the 0-4-0 Camelback kit and that would make a great little 2-4-0 western style locomotive with a rear cab and old time decorations.

And don't take our advice as saying the smaller scales are not worth building. It is your hobby and you need to build what you want, the way you want to. I have good live steamer friends who have given up 1.5" scale and gone back to 1" because they enjoy constructing more than running their equipment and it is so much easier to work with.

I look forward to hearing how things work out.

KG

[10 Wheeler Rob]

I recomend the Allen10 Wheeler over the mogal, not any more complicated to build. It's about six inches longer and heavier. Which gives it more pulling power.

Rob

[Dick_Morris]

How does the weight on drivers compare between the 10 wheeler and mogul? I'm guessing that a lot of the 10 wheelers extra weight is carried on the front truck which doesn't do anything for pulling power.

[Greg_Lewis]

One more vote for the Allen mogul or 10-wheeler.
- It's a tried and true design
- There are many many of them out there and therefore help is easy to get
- Castings are reasonably priced and easy to get
- It will fit in a pickup truck
- You can kit-bash the basic frame and running gear design into models of the many prototype engines that were made
- You can fabricate many of the parts if you wish, rather than buying the castings (after the cylinders, just about all of it)
- 7 1/2 tracks are common
- The larger size is easier to ride on
- And, as the late, great Dick Thomas once said to me, "If you don't finish it, your widow will be able to sell it."

Finally, there is only so much time in life and building a loco and laying track is more than most folks can handle at the same time.

[Soot n' Cinders]

Ill chime in as well on the Allen stuff. I think theres enough Allen moguls and 10 wheelers out there to say its a successful deign!
The Artzberger RGS #20 make for a nice 2.5" scale 10 wheeler with a ton of power, but there are errors in the drawings that need to be accounted for. For a first timer, I'd say start with an Allen if you dont have your heart set on narrow gauge. But most importantly, build what you want and learn from that. Its much harder to get bogged down in issues when its something you really like, thats why I started with a shay.'

[PeterCraymer]

I built an Allen 10-wheeler as my first engine because of most of the things listed above. I liked the design, there are hundreds or more built, and they share most components with the mogul and American that should account for even more engines proving the design. It was relatively inexpensive if you do all the work yourself and is manageable with a small truck, but has enough power to pull 7 or 8 people at most tracks. I wanted to build something that I didn't need to do any design work outside of cosmetic changes and understand more about steam before I started to plan, design and build something larger. Whatever you decide, just start! I put it off for many years and then it took almost 15 years to complete because life goes on with or without a project like this! For what you get, you can't beat Dave's deal on the camelback. Even more portable and a cool prototype. Build bigger later! Good luck on your decision. Hope to see it here!

[NP317]

How does the weight on drivers compare between the 10 wheeler and mogul? I'm guessing that a lot of the 10 wheelers extra weight is carried on the front truck which doesn't do anything for pulling power.

My Allen Ten Wheeler has just 50 lbs on the front truck.
All the remaining weight is on the drivers.
~RN