Steel wheel tires - welding?

This forum is dedicated to the Live Steam Hobbyist Community.

Moderators: Harold_V, WJH, cbrew

User avatar
shayloco
Posts: 247
Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2003 11:00 am
Location: Rhode Island

Re: Steel wheel tires - welding?

Post by shayloco » Mon Oct 02, 2017 5:34 pm

John Hasler wrote:shayloco writes:
> I have bought thick wall pipe cut-offs from Speedy Metals. They sell by the inch. This was a good deal until they started adding a "specialty fee" or whatever they called it.

What did you order that got that? I just ran a dummy order for DOM tubing and I see no added fees. In fact, on the last order I placed with them (some Delrin rod) the didn't even charge shipping.
I just did a test order for 5" od DOM tubing, 4" id. 12 pieces of 1" length. (Think 2-6-6-2 Mallet).
7.17 cost per inch
86.04 material cost
16.10 "PROCESS FEE"

That's the fee they add rather than call if a cutting fee, which is what it really is. I don't know where this fee kicks in, could be if you order 6 there is no process fee. But, at 12 there definitely is.

User avatar
Fender
Posts: 2511
Joined: Wed May 02, 2007 8:33 pm
Location: Chattanooga TN

Re: Steel wheel tires - welding?

Post by Fender » Mon Oct 02, 2017 5:38 pm

Sixteen bucks isn't too bad, when you consider the hassle of making that many cuts through thick tubing, oneself...
Dan Watson

User avatar
shayloco
Posts: 247
Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2003 11:00 am
Location: Rhode Island

Re: Steel wheel tires - welding?

Post by shayloco » Mon Oct 02, 2017 6:20 pm

Fender wrote:Sixteen bucks isn't too bad, when you consider the hassle of making that many cuts through thick tubing, oneself...
Here's a quote from Speedy Metals:
"Speedy Metals® custom cuts to any length and has NO CUTTING CHARGES and NO MINIMUMS!"

I say the "Process Fee" is a cutting charge. The first time I ordered a quantity of pipe slices there was no "Process Fee". The next time I tried to place an order I saw the "Process Fee" and ended up getting the parts locally and cheaper.

John Hasler
Posts: 911
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 4:05 pm
Location: Elmwood, Wisconsin

Re: Steel wheel tires - welding?

Post by John Hasler » Mon Oct 02, 2017 7:32 pm

The fee is for taking the 12" piece fo tubing you ordered and which they would have cut off their piece of stock for you for free and cutting it up into 1" pieces. Seems reasonable to me. "No cutting charges" just means that when I order 10" of 2"x4" Durabar they don't hang on a $5.00 cutting fee after multiplying the price per inch by 10. It doesn't mean they will do my work for me at no charge. Some suppliers quote prices by the foot but add a cutting fee if your order is not a multiple of their stock size.

Bastelmike
Posts: 18
Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2013 12:27 pm
Location: NRW, Germany

Re: Steel wheel tires - welding?

Post by Bastelmike » Tue Oct 03, 2017 2:50 am

I'm still not sure whethers its worth the effort to try welding rolled flat bar.
Seems to be the cheap route here.

Anyone with poor experience in this forum on welded wheel tires?

Mike

Harold_V
Posts: 17096
Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2002 11:02 pm
Location: Onalaska, WA USA

Re: Steel wheel tires - welding?

Post by Harold_V » Tue Oct 03, 2017 3:00 am

Bastelmike wrote:I'm still not sure whethers its worth the effort to try welding rolled flat bar.
I'd think it all depends on one's ability to create good welds. A seasoned weldor most likely wouldn't have any problems, and any dissimilarity in hardness/machinability could be eliminated by a full anneal after welding, which would also serve to eliminate internal stresses. A good and viable solution when tubing or pipe may not be at one's disposal.

H
Wise people talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to say something.

LIALLEGHENY
Posts: 94
Joined: Sat Jan 11, 2014 12:36 am
Location: Bohemia, NY

Re: Steel wheel tires - welding?

Post by LIALLEGHENY » Tue Oct 03, 2017 3:31 pm

I personally would stay away from welded pipe and/or welding up rolled flat bar for tires if you have the choice. There is always a spot where the weld was , that machines a little differently than the rest of the pipe . Even if the piece is annealed there is still a spot that is different due to the weld zone, and alloy of the filler rod used. Not saying you can't use welded, but I would go with rolled tube if given the option.

Nyle

User avatar
cbrew
Posts: 2726
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2003 12:17 pm
Location: Vancouver Wa

Re: Steel wheel tires - welding?

Post by cbrew » Tue Oct 03, 2017 4:30 pm

LIALLEGHENY wrote:I personally would stay away from welded pipe and/or welding up rolled flat bar for tires if you have the choice. There is always a spot where the weld was , that machines a little differently than the rest of the pipe . Even if the piece is annealed there is still a spot that is different due to the weld zone, and alloy of the filler rod used. Not saying you can't use welded, but I would go with rolled tube if given the option.

Nyle
I agree, that joint will always be a weak point, and if that ever did break, it would be pretty embarrassing
If it is not live steam. its not worth it.

John Hasler
Posts: 911
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 4:05 pm
Location: Elmwood, Wisconsin

Re: Steel wheel tires - welding?

Post by John Hasler » Tue Oct 03, 2017 4:39 pm

Nyle writes:
> There is always a spot where the weld was , that machines a little differently than the rest of the pipe .
> Even if the piece is annealed there is still a spot that is different due to the weld zone, and alloy of the filler rod used.

I've never been able to find the weld in DOM tubing. It's resistance welded: no filler.

https://steeltubeinstitute.org/drawn-ov ... g-process/

User avatar
ALCOSTEAM
Posts: 618
Joined: Tue Feb 04, 2003 9:20 am
Location: illinois

Re: Steel wheel tires - welding?

Post by ALCOSTEAM » Tue Oct 03, 2017 7:10 pm

I have talked to the folks at Ajax rolled ring but never bought anything from them. They are now called Fomas Group. I know the tires that were made for the Southern 401 were rolled and machined at Ajax.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ban_UuOiMyw

I was originally going to put tires on the greenbriar drivers but ended up having 16" round 2" thick drops burnt out of plate and machined them from there. Actually the guy that cut them out had hundreds if not thousands of round drops, he just found the ones closest to the size I wanted and recut to size.

This is their info,,

R & S Steel corporation
301 Washington St, Congerville, IL 61729
309-448-2645

might be a bit much on shipping to germany though

Cary Stewart
Posts: 490
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 5:54 pm

Re: Steel wheel tires - welding?

Post by Cary Stewart » Tue Oct 03, 2017 7:23 pm

One other possibility is cutting by water jet. For a few years now they can tilt the CNC nozzle to get a vertical wall in the cut on the side you want. If you have circles cut out of plate and they charge you for the blanks then by all means ask for and take the drops and outside residue. Your paid for it and it may come in handy later like for other wheels or.....
Cary

Bastelmike
Posts: 18
Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2013 12:27 pm
Location: NRW, Germany

Re: Steel wheel tires - welding?

Post by Bastelmike » Wed Oct 04, 2017 3:00 am

@Cary

I took the drops and outsides with me last time. The round drops are useful for smaller wheels; other live steamers might be interested in them too.
The odd shaped outside residues are less attractive. They are only useful after a lot of cutting, and for me the only working method to cut them is torch cutting by hand. 25mm thick steel with hand torch is slow.
I don't have a vertical bandsaw and my horizontal will only cut them after the parts got somewhat parallel.

Mike

Post Reply