I never intended .....

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DianneB
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Location: Manitoba, Canada

I never intended .....

Postby DianneB » Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:47 pm

.... to learn this much! :shock:

I have been doing "farm machining" for decades, +/- a few thou, but in re-fitting my LE American this fall I have been learning and refining 'techniques'.

I got a new chuck for my South Bend Heavy 10 and made a tail stock die holder to thread a lot of 1/4" brass 'pipes' and make nipples for the plumbing.

I spent a lot of time on my (cheap) mini-mill learning to do accurate holes and threading to make a bunch of PMR pipes fittings (but haven't had the nerve to tackle globe valves yet LOL!).

Yesterday my 3/8" gauge glass broke while re-installing it and I don't have any 3/8" glass but have lots of 1/2" Pyrex gauge glass so I decided to make a whole new water glass from some 3/8x1" brass stock. I learned how to lay out the holes accurately on the mill and then use the rotary table to mill a groove for the end of the glass (and a washer). Finished off with making a set of 4 tie rods from 1/8" diameter brass rod.

Progress is on my Web site http://www.diannebest.com/Plumbing/ReFi ... rican.html

Who'd'a thunk, at my age (68) I would be learning model making!!?? If I keep at this, I might become a little proficient and miniature machining :wink:

(I know, it is "old hat" to a lot of you experienced folks but it is all new to me :mrgreen:

Wolfgang
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Re: I never intended .....

Postby Wolfgang » Mon Nov 06, 2017 3:18 pm

Nice work and nice locomotive!

A minor point perhaps but 1/8" dia. rod is the exact size for a #5 thread, ie. .125" diameter.
The od for a #6 thread would be .013" larger or .138".

For those that do not know how to determine the dia. of # sized screws, the following may help.

Beginning with a #0 screw such as 0-80, the od is .060" by definition. To this basic dimension an increment of .013" is applied. Consequently a #5 screw has a dia. of .060+(5x.013)=.125". A #10 screw is .060+(10x.013)=.190" dia.

Similarly a #00 screw has a dia. of .060-.013=.047", and a #000 screw has a dia. of .034".

Trust this helps a little. w

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DianneB
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Re: I never intended .....

Postby DianneB » Mon Nov 06, 2017 7:38 pm

Wolfgang wrote:Beginning with a #0 screw such as 0-80, the od is .060" by definition. To this basic dimension an increment of .013" is applied. Consequently a #5 screw has a dia. of .060+(5x.013)=.125". A #10 screw is .060+(10x.013)=.190" dia.


So that's the relationship. With my memory I will just print off a screw chart and hang it in the shop!
:wink:

RET
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Re: I never intended .....

Postby RET » Mon Nov 06, 2017 7:54 pm

Hi Dianne,

I just turned 80, so don't feel bad! If you don't know them, there are several tricks to making gauge glasses.

First, never let the glass touch metal once it is assembled. Glass is very strong, but it doesn't do well if it is point loaded. Use viton "O" rings to hold and seal the glass tubes in the fittings. You don't have to tighten up the nuts very much to get a seal and remember, rubber expands quite a lot as it is heated. Make sure the glass tube doesn't bottom out in any of the fittings.

Second, to cut glass tubing, use a 3 cornered file to score the tube in one spot. Put some spit on the score, then use your fingers to bend the tube at the score so the score is under tension. The tube will break cleanly and easily at the score. I worked for a glass company for more than 30 years so I know. Like most things,its easy once you know how. By the way, spit works better than pain water, probably because the surface tension is lower.

Hope this helps.

Richard Trounce.

rkcarguy
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Re: I never intended .....

Postby rkcarguy » Wed Nov 08, 2017 2:14 pm

One can find charts online for tap, drill, and overall diameter for threads. I've drilled many holes into a wood block and have my regular tap, tap drill, and clearance drills all in groups labeled with sharpie so at a glance I can grab the one I need. The machinist in me can't stand slop, so "clearance drill" isn't really as it sounds. I like to size them so the screw just goes through, when a drill is available in the right size anyway.
I do not have a lathe and it is definitely missed. Especially at my prior workplace, we had a lathe that the chuck could be pulled and a collet system installed that held things very true and accurate for threading small parts, making fittings, and the like. Keep in mind you can always put a die in the chuck, and some smaller parts in the tailstock chuck, and thread them leaving the tailstock clamp loose if you dare. I've even done smaller stuff just turning the chuck by hand.

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DianneB
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Re: I never intended .....

Postby DianneB » Wed Nov 08, 2017 6:18 pm

RET wrote:...never let the glass touch metal once it is assembled

That was a problem with the original glass - the glass was held between the brass blocks with a VERY thin fibre seal - and I think that is why the glass broke so easily.

The glass I made uses (automotive) cork gaskets at each end and it has plenty of 'sponginess'. The recess that holds the gaskets is a bit bigger than the glass so the glass doesn't even touch the brass.

Second, to cut glass tubing, use a 3 cornered file to score the tube in one spot.

I wrapped the glass in masking tape and chucked the glass (very carefully) in the lathe and ran my best glass cutter against it to score the glass. Pyrex is a LOT tougher than regular glass! I also used my wet grinder to smooth the ends of the tube. (One of these days I will buy a proper tubing cutter - they are cheap.)

+++++++++++++++++++++

Leak-tested the piping today under air pressure. Had one leak in the new plumbing and TWO in the existing piping!

Also started trying to figure out what to do about the cylinder drain cocks.

The engine came with "automatic" drains but you can't warm up the cylinders with those so I put steam operated drains on it years ago. I don't like the size of the steam operated drain cocks - they hang down too low - and they wont automatically relieve over-pressure. I'd go manual but trying to get a linkage from the cab to under the cylinders on the LE American is a nightmare!

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SteveM
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Re: I never intended .....

Postby SteveM » Wed Nov 08, 2017 9:40 pm

Nice work, Dianne!

Steve

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LVRR2095
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Re: I never intended .....

Postby LVRR2095 » Sat Nov 11, 2017 12:35 pm

DianneB wrote:


The engine came with "automatic" drains but you can't warm up the cylinders with those so I put steam operated drains on it years ago. I don't like the size of the steam operated drain cocks - they hang down too low - and they wont automatically relieve over-pressure. I'd go manual but trying to get a linkage from the cab to under the cylinders on the LE American is a nightmare!


Why can’t you warm the cylinders with automatic drains? I have them on several locomotives and they work perfectly while warming the cylinders. By their nature they remain open and draining if there is any water in the cylinders and at low pressure. To warm the cylinders you only crack the throttle enough to let a small amount of steam to the cylinders and warm them. Once the cylinders are warm, they won’t condense the steam into water and the automatic cocks will close.
Keith

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DianneB
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Re: I never intended .....

Postby DianneB » Sat Nov 11, 2017 5:29 pm

LVRR2095 wrote:Why can’t you warm the cylinders with automatic drains?


The ones I have are spring-loaded closed - only open on excess pressure.

I am working on a design that is manual but spring-loaded when closed. I just have to figure out how to get the linkage from the cab to t he pilot truck.

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LVRR2095
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Re: I never intended .....

Postby LVRR2095 » Sat Nov 11, 2017 6:03 pm

DianneB wrote:
LVRR2095 wrote:Why can’t you warm the cylinders with automatic drains?


The ones I have are spring-loaded closed - only open on excess pressure.

I am working on a design that is manual but spring-loaded when closed. I just have to figure out how to get the linkage from the cab to t he pilot truck.

Then they are not automatic cylinder drains.....get rid of the springs.
You want the VanBrocklin style cylinder drains.
http://ibls.org/mediawiki/index.php?tit ... nder_Cocks

Keith

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DianneB
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Re: I never intended .....

Postby DianneB » Sun Nov 12, 2017 8:58 am

I guess "automatic" depends on your definition. I think of automatic as NOT having a manual (engineer-controlled) input but having a pressure relief to prevent hydraulic lock.

The design I am working on is similar to Bill Shield's "ramp & ball" drain cocks but with a 1/4-turn arm to open or close.

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LVRR2095
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Re: I never intended .....

Postby LVRR2095 » Sun Nov 12, 2017 9:21 am

DianneB wrote:I guess "automatic" depends on your definition. I think of automatic as NOT having a manual (engineer-controlled) input but having a pressure relief to prevent hydraulic lock.

The design I am working on is similar to Bill Shield's "ramp & ball" drain cocks but with a 1/4-turn arm to open or close.

Diane;
Automatic drain cocks are normally open and draining when there is no steam in the cylinders. If water is present it will drain out the open cocks. If water is present with steam applied the water keeps the ball from closing the cock, and once only steam is present the steam will seat the ball in the opening.
No operator input is required it is completely automatic. The link I sent in the previous post is to the drawings for the VanBrocklin type completely automatic cylinder drains.
Keith


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