Baldwin green paint scheme

This forum is dedicated to the Live Steam Hobbyist Community.

Moderators: Harold_V, WJH, cbrew

User avatar
Trainman4602
Posts: 3236
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 9:26 pm
Location: New Jersey

Re: Baldwin green paint scheme

Post by Trainman4602 » Thu Nov 23, 2017 4:32 am

Yes it will no problem.
ALLWAYS OPERATING MY TRAIN IN A SAFE MANNER USING AUTOMATIC AIR BRAKES

User avatar
Bruce_Mowbray
Posts: 640
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2003 7:45 pm
Location: Pennsylvania

Re: Baldwin green paint scheme

Post by Bruce_Mowbray » Thu Nov 30, 2017 8:44 am

Baldwin Green 1920's Munsell 10Y 2/2. Silver is "aluminum leaf"
Delaware Lackawanna and Western green passenger cars 1930's also Munsell 10Y 2/2
Central Railroad of New Jersey green passenger cars 1920's Munsell 5Y 2/1

Any "better" quality automotive paint supplier should be able to supply these colors based on Munsell color codes. We had the "Baldwin green" made in Dupont Centari (R) by our local automotive paint shop supplier.
Bruce Mowbray
Springville & Southern RR
TMB Manufacturing & Locomotive Works

User avatar
Harlock
Posts: 3547
Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2007 1:19 am
Contact:

Re: Baldwin green paint scheme

Post by Harlock » Fri Dec 01, 2017 11:10 pm

Bruce Mowbray is correct. I have received some further information from a friend who is extremely knowledgeable about early locomotive color schemes. He wishes to remain anonymous but contribute the following information:

The Munsell color match for Baldwin’s olive green is Munsell10Y 2/2. The match was with the Baldwin Paint Books at Stanford. Munsell 10Y 2/2 is the darkest of the Munsell olive greens, and Baldwin’s color is a hair darker than that. Care should be taken to keep it dark, and avoid going towards army olive greens.

In the past two months, a new paint match has been made directly from large areas of original olive green from the sandbox wrapper of a 1913 Baldwin ten wheeler. The exposed original paint, complete with original aluminum striping, had been partly revarnished to return the original depth and color, and the paint match was made from these.

The new match was made using auto paint and the recipe is below. We're waiting for good weather to allow the final confirmation of the paint match to the original Baldwin paint. Stay tuned.

Code: Select all

SKU  Desc.                  Inc. (part)    Cum. (part)
J89  Deep Basecoat Black    273.9          273.9
J29  Organic GS Yellow      23.4           297.3
J83  Tinting White          10.0           307.3
J51  Red Oxide              51.1           358.4         
J33  Blue Shade Green       0.5            358.9
J41  Grn Shade Blue         0.5            359.4
J92  Drier                  9.5            368.9        
J93  Clear	               129.5          498.4
Baldwin introduced olive green in 1877 as its standard factory color, and used it to the end of steam production whenever a customer did not request a particular color. By 1900 most large railroads, and a few small ones, were ordering engines in black, but shortlines and industrials with no operating departments and common standards were happy to receive their engines as Baldwin finished them.

The new paint match was made as part of an operating restoration of a 1906 Baldwin narrow gauge mogul in the midwest. When done it should be a very good looking locomotive. Stay tuned!
San Lorezo Flume & Lumber Co. #2 - "Felton"
Live Steam Photography and more - www.mikemassee.com
Contributing Editor, Live Steam Magazine
Webmaster, Allen Models of Nevada

Kevin S
Posts: 40
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2010 4:11 pm
Location: Rocklin, CA

Re: Baldwin green paint scheme

Post by Kevin S » Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:40 pm

Mike, what is the paint manufacture for the above paint formula, as different manufacture have different codes and names for color. Also There is different paint lines from the same manufacture to allow for different VOC laws around the country.
-Kevin S

Glenn Brooks
Posts: 1112
Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2014 1:39 pm
Location: Back in Washington, Alas

Re: Baldwin green paint scheme

Post by Glenn Brooks » Mon Dec 04, 2017 7:52 pm

Update on trying to obtain Baldwin Green in modern over the counter paint stores. Basically i gave up on matching original Dulux paint codes to contemporary paint code databases - no one in the the Seattle area has retained the old conversion tables.

After trying mucho 1 pint samples from DYI outlets, one of the old timers in our RR club suggested doing powder coat for my tender and loco. Presto, the local powder coat vendor has a pretty close OTC match for Baldwin Green - which is what I’ve decided to go with.

If anyone else is interested, here is the vendor and color sample that pretty well matches Baldwin’s original green: Cardinal Industrial Coatings, Polyester Powder, “Traffic Green” 70% gloss, Number T007-GN16

The cab and tender are getting new 90% gloss black as well, along with vinyl Great Northern RR decLs, new cab numbers and classification markings. Should be way cool when it’s done, I hope.

End of the week should have the boiler jacket back with the new color. I’ll post a couple of pics once the loco has all its plumbing and pieces and markings back where they belong.

If the temps weren’t down to freezing I would have liked to have tried Harlock’s historically matched paint formula, above. But have given up on painting till spring, as I don’t have heat in the shop. I think I will pursue finding someone to mix a quart, just to have in hand and compare once the powder coating guys are done. Path of least resistance at this point.

Glenn
Moderator - Grand Scale Forum

Motive power : 1902 A.S.Campbell 4-4-0 American - 12 5/8" gauge, 1955 Ottaway 4-4-0 American 12" gauge

Ahaha, Retirement: the good life - drifting endlessly on a Sea of projects....

User avatar
Harlock
Posts: 3547
Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2007 1:19 am
Contact:

Re: Baldwin green paint scheme

Post by Harlock » Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:13 am

Kevin S wrote:Mike, what is the paint manufacture for the above paint formula, as different manufacture have different codes and names for color. Also There is different paint lines from the same manufacture to allow for different VOC laws around the country.
-Kevin S
There will be some more details later this week after some tests are done with the formula.

Best,

-Mike
San Lorezo Flume & Lumber Co. #2 - "Felton"
Live Steam Photography and more - www.mikemassee.com
Contributing Editor, Live Steam Magazine
Webmaster, Allen Models of Nevada

User avatar
Harlock
Posts: 3547
Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2007 1:19 am
Contact:

Re: Baldwin green paint scheme

Post by Harlock » Fri Dec 22, 2017 12:40 am

My friend reports that the olive green recipe listed above was a success and a near perfect match for the original sample. Here is a photo he supplied of the color on some 1 1/2" scale domes.
olivegreen.jpg
Glenn, thanks for the powder coat match. I am a big fan of powder coat. The finish on my rail speeder has proven to be indestructible, even when a family member ran it off into the ballast and dirt. Looks like it never happened.
San Lorezo Flume & Lumber Co. #2 - "Felton"
Live Steam Photography and more - www.mikemassee.com
Contributing Editor, Live Steam Magazine
Webmaster, Allen Models of Nevada

rkcarguy
Posts: 474
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2017 10:33 am

Re: Baldwin green paint scheme

Post by rkcarguy » Fri Dec 22, 2017 5:33 pm

Powder-coat is great stuff, I had a roll-cage done in crinkle black years ago, I clamped brackets for a camera around it with U-bolts in several places, have dropped tools and had them bounce off it, and nothing phases the stuff!

User avatar
Harlock
Posts: 3547
Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2007 1:19 am
Contact:

Re: Baldwin green paint scheme

Post by Harlock » Fri Dec 22, 2017 8:06 pm

rkcarguy wrote:Powder-coat is great stuff, I had a roll-cage done in crinkle black years ago, I clamped brackets for a camera around it with U-bolts in several places, have dropped tools and had them bounce off it, and nothing phases the stuff!
That's been my experience as well. Some people have complained that it chips off easily, and my thought is that they've received a poor powder coat job where the material was not properly media blasted beforehand. I always pay extra to have them blast it if I haven't done it myself. (which is the case for anything bigger than will fit into a regular shop blasting cabinet) Powder coat needs a clean, rough surface to stick to just like paint. Do it right and it is indestructible. There isn't a nick on the speeder several years in, and it's used and abused by kids and was crashed into gravel once. If it were regular paint, I would have had to repaint or touch up the frame annually.

Also, once it cures, it is good to a higher temperature than the original cure temp. That's how two layers of powder coat were applied to the speeder frame. The first layer was red, and then some masking was done and the grab-bars were done in silver and back in the oven again. I think regular powder coat cures at around 450, hotter than steam at 125 PSI. (~350 degrees) so should be no problems powder coating a boiler jacket, as attested to the number of jackets I have seen done in powder coat. Only problem would be with a smokebox, where graphite or engine paint is still king.

In any case, sorry getting off topic a bit.
San Lorezo Flume & Lumber Co. #2 - "Felton"
Live Steam Photography and more - www.mikemassee.com
Contributing Editor, Live Steam Magazine
Webmaster, Allen Models of Nevada

Glenn Brooks
Posts: 1112
Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2014 1:39 pm
Location: Back in Washington, Alas

Re: Baldwin green paint scheme

Post by Glenn Brooks » Sat Dec 23, 2017 1:42 am

Mike, Your photos of Baldwin green steam domes are great stuff! Thanks for posting.

I made a mistake in my above post when I described the powder coat formula as Baldwin green. It isn’t Baldwin green. Rather it is close to Great Northern RR green - their original formula used for boiler jackets. At least it looks good on my Ottaway. It’s very very dark green. But doesn’t quite make it into the Baldwin/Pullman green category.

I posted a few more pics in the grand scale forum. Here’s how it looks.
672E4485-B58D-4510-AAFE-6CDF38EF8C27.jpeg
Iam still very interested in pursuing the Baldwin Green color scheme on my 1904 Campbell loco restoration. Hoping to get back into that this spring. I understand it is possible to have special powder coating colors made up. So plan on following up with your paint formula to see what the powder coat vendor can match. Might require sending them a sample with traditional high gloss enamel.

Thanks again for offering your friends findings on the paint. Very valuable resource!

Glenn
Moderator - Grand Scale Forum

Motive power : 1902 A.S.Campbell 4-4-0 American - 12 5/8" gauge, 1955 Ottaway 4-4-0 American 12" gauge

Ahaha, Retirement: the good life - drifting endlessly on a Sea of projects....

k36no4862002
Posts: 98
Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2009 4:27 pm
Location: Surrey, UK

Re: Baldwin green paint scheme

Post by k36no4862002 » Sat Dec 23, 2017 8:42 am

Powder coat is great, I had the K36 powder coated over 15 years ago and it still looks good.

I think you can get the powder in most RAL colours although I prefer black! - oh and a bit of graphite grey for the smokebox, but I paint that with stove enamel anyway.

Well worth it and yes make sure they properly shot blast the pieces before the powder, when I built the tender for the Challenger I asked the powder coaters about protecting the steel from rust whilst it was being built.

They stated to just apply some cheap primer to stop any rust, but not oil/WD40 as they would have to dip the parts and then shot blast (which will cost me more). They actually stated that they would prefer a bit of surface rust / paint than oil as it's easier for them to deal with.

Paul
Paul Edmonds,
Surrey, United Kingdom.
2.5" Scale D&RGW K36, 1.6" Scale CHallenger 4-6-6-4 (still ongoing)

User avatar
Harlock
Posts: 3547
Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2007 1:19 am
Contact:

Re: Baldwin green paint scheme

Post by Harlock » Sun Dec 24, 2017 10:16 pm

Glenn, I like the look of the Ottaway, it's the perfect cheery paint job for a former park train! I've always liked Herb's stuff. The only one I have seen in person is Erich Thomsen's Cricket, which has been greatly modified to look narrow gauge. There is another one that operates on special occasions up in the Bay Area and I need to go see it sometime.

It would be very cool if a powder coat match could be done for the Baldwin color. Might be useful for a lot of folks. I'll have a little more information to add to the formula shortly.
San Lorezo Flume & Lumber Co. #2 - "Felton"
Live Steam Photography and more - www.mikemassee.com
Contributing Editor, Live Steam Magazine
Webmaster, Allen Models of Nevada

Post Reply