So that is why this does not fit......

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Doug_Edwards
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So that is why this does not fit......

Post by Doug_Edwards » Fri Dec 01, 2017 4:05 pm

Hi all,

I have been tied up for the last few years, and finally have a break to work on my projects. I have wanted to finish up the patterns for the castings on the wood brake beam for the Climax I am working on.

I have struggled with the casting on the ends of the brake beam. I have ended up measuring it numerous times, tried layouts each time, and still the centerline of the cored hole would not line up with the casting that sits on the middle of the brake beam on the other side. I think have ended up spending more time trying to get a layout that works on this casting then any other part I have measured on any project. This casting has been in the queue for a number of years, since the part I was measuring was quite a distance away, and I had to wait to remeasure when I was in the area again, which in the best case, was a year later. Each time I was more careful in measuring the part, but still no joy.

I finally found the problem. In the first image with the assembled brake beam, if you sight down the parting line on the side of the lobe that has the cored hole for the tierod, you can see that the tierod is not collinear with the cored hole, but is off to an angle to the left to enable the tierod to wrap around the casting on the other side of the middle of the brake beam. No wonder things would not fit! I'm not sure the reason for this discrepancy. Was the pattern made incorrectly to begin with? Was it repurposed from another use? Was the brakebeam not as thick at one point? At least I know where the problem is, and it was not me! I'm working on finalizing my layout and getting ready to make the pattern for this part.

In the second image, you can see that on one side of the casting, part of the casting is broken off near the cored hole, where the pressure of the misaligned tierod would be bearing heavily. Figures. I had noted the broken area, but it didn't click that it might be a clue to my layout problem.

Working on this project has been very enjoyable in many different areas. Investigating the design has been fascinating, I enjoy the patternmaking, and I have ended up meeting and talking to people to better understand what I am looking at. But this has also given me clues to the personality of the manufacturing company that built the loco, which has greatly appealed to my interest of the history of Climax Manufacturing, and manufacturing during this time period. I have had the chance to discover some obscure details that I would not have noticed with a less intense study required to build the model. I have found this to be every bit as rewarding as building the model.

I thought this might be of interest to others who have scratched their heads over measuring parts.

Regards,

Doug
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IMG_1078.JPG
IMG_1075.JPG
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Building a 70 ton Willamette in 1.6"
Building a 80 ton Climax in 1.6"

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Dick_Morris
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Re: So that is why this does not fit......

Post by Dick_Morris » Fri Dec 01, 2017 4:26 pm

Could it have been meant for both narrow gauge and standard gauge. Would the castings have been spaced wider - and the angles been right - on a standard gauge truck?

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Fender
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Re: So that is why this does not fit......

Post by Fender » Fri Dec 01, 2017 5:01 pm

A modeler's dilemma: Should you reproduce the original design error, or fix it? :?
Dan Watson

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Sandiapaul
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Re: So that is why this does not fit......

Post by Sandiapaul » Sat Dec 02, 2017 7:19 am

Doug, are you aware of this?:
http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.ph ... 0cf4050dee

Kind of off topic but very interesting nonetheless!

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NP317
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Re: So that is why this does not fit......

Post by NP317 » Sat Dec 02, 2017 11:03 am

Dick_Morris wrote:Could it have been meant for both narrow gauge and standard gauge. Would the castings have been spaced wider - and the angles been right - on a standard gauge truck?
I suspect you might be correct, Dick.
If so, then the casting pictured is used on a narrow-gauge loco. The OP's answer will be interesting.

On a separate (off topic - sorry) CLIMAX Locomotive subject, when we (beginning of Mt. Rainier Scenic RR, Washington State) restored Hillcrest #10 Class C climax in 1982, I was the Engineer for the first year of operation. More vertical miles than horizontal that summer...
One hilarious consequence of that loco's brake beam design was to collect squashed coins (placed on the track by rail-fans) on the front horizontal brake beam. Perhaps the steel alloy of the replacement tires made for #10 (when still in service) made coins stick to the tires. Then they were rotated over the wheel tops and the brake shoes jarred them loose. The coins would fall onto the I-beam of the front brake hanger assembly and collect there. We'd laugh at those rail fans searching for their flattened coins at the depot tracks. We crew had plenty to give to deserving kids.

Now about those miss-aligned castings... I look forward to seeing more of the model Climax project here.
Sorry for the story hijack.
~RN

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ccvstmr
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Re: So that is why this does not fit......

Post by ccvstmr » Sat Dec 02, 2017 11:12 am

...and as everybody knows RN..."change is inevitable, except from vending machines and sticky Climax loco tires!" :roll: Carl B.
Life is like a sewer...what you get out of it depends on what you put into it!
I don't walk on water...I just learned where some of the stepping stones are!
I love mankind...it's some of the people I can't stand!

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Doug_Edwards
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Re: So that is why this does not fit......

Post by Doug_Edwards » Sat Dec 02, 2017 1:42 pm

Dick,

The castings would fit much better if they were on a standard gauge brake beam, but I have tended to think they were for 3' gauge, since they have a cast number in them of "36", which is also on another different casting on the brake beam. Normal Climax pattern numbers have a letter followed by a number.

Dan,

After some consideration, I went ahead and fixed it to the layout shown in the standard gauge beam in the following image.

Paul,

Thanks, I only recently had that thread pointed out to me, although I have corresponded with Bill in the past.

I have attached another image of a standard gauge brake beam where the tierod layout was as I would have expected it to be on the NG beam. Note that the brakelever fulcrum is on the inboard side of the beam on this beam, but outboard on the NG one. Also note where the U joint has rubbed the truck end tiebar above it.

D.
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Dad's 151.JPG
http://www.precisionlocomotivecastings.com/
Building a 70 ton Willamette in 1.6"
Building a 80 ton Climax in 1.6"

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Doug_Edwards
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Re: So that is why this does not fit......

Post by Doug_Edwards » Sun Jul 29, 2018 4:06 pm

Hi all,

I did get a pattern finished and off to the foundry to get some of these cast. I've attached a couple of images of a sample pattern. I included another image of the full sized part for comparison.

There are flow lines in the pattern that will not be in the final casting.

I'm making this casting and related castings to fit a 2.5" scale ng Climax truck with the wood brake beams. This fits most Class A Climaxes and small Class B locos with the wood brake beam. I have more of the brake beam castings in the works as time allows. I'm looking forward to being able to hang the brake beams on the truck.

Regards,

D.
Attachments
100_5928.JPG
100_5930.JPG
IMG_1090.JPG
http://www.precisionlocomotivecastings.com/
Building a 70 ton Willamette in 1.6"
Building a 80 ton Climax in 1.6"

"Aim to improve!"
"Mine is not to question why, mine is just to tool and die"

paralleler
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Re: So that is why this does not fit......

Post by paralleler » Sat Aug 04, 2018 9:38 pm

Gentlemen,

In your quest of studies on the Climax, have any of you come across how steam enters and exhausts from the steam chest? I purchased a 7-1/2" gage Climax that has the steam entering the cylinder at six o'clock, goes through the steam chest, and exhausts at either three o'clock or nine o'clock (left vs. right cylinder). Kinda' confusing description? Maybe reference the attached photos.

From a drawing of the cylinder, I've seen what appears to be a score for a steam passage around the cylinder's interior on its way to and from the steam chest. My guess is that the steam enters via the bottom of the cylinder, goes along the outside of the cylinder up to the steam chest somehow, passes into the steam chest, powers the piston and exits to the steam chest "normally," then exhausts along the upper inside quarter of the cylinder and departs at either six or nine o'clock. I am thinking there is some kind of plug preventing steam from going the final quarter of the cylinders perimeter. Geeze..., maybe I'm just flat out wrong. I also do not believe that Kozo or Reedy did theirs this way.

I don't want to take anything apart to confirm any of this until I have to. I was thinking of doing a "field trip" to Roaring Camp & Big Trees to see if I can tell how it was done in real life. I'm trying to figure out how the designers may have made a plug to prevent exhaust steam and entering steam from mixing. Maintenance would have been interesting.

Many thanks for any direction you may be able to help me with this query.

p.s., If anyone recognizes Climax #38 and knows who the original builder was, I'd enjoy knowing that too. It's a heritage thing for me. The second builder lived in Malabar, Florida, and sold it around 2013. The third builder did some detail work and sold it to me a couple of months ago.

p.p.s., Climax #38 did its first run around the track yesterday. Prior to my purchase, it's my understanding that it had never even been hydrotested. Video upcoming as I catch up on multiple projects.
Attachments
DSC07862.JPG
Right Cylinder -- Steam In At 6 o'clock
DSC07859.JPG
Right Cylinder -- Steam In At 6 o'clock, Exhaust Out At 9 o'clock
Climax Cylinder-2.jpg
Climax Cylinder Drawing
Climax Portrait-1.JPG
Climax #38

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NP317
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Re: So that is why this does not fit......

Post by NP317 » Sat Aug 04, 2018 10:20 pm

Based on the drawing of the cylinder and the accompanying notes, I suspect the cylinder liner has external passages machined in the outer wall. Once the liner is pressed in, it makes passages for intake and exhaust.
I suggest the drawing for the liner has the information you seek.
~RN

Soot n' Cinders
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Re: So that is why this does not fit......

Post by Soot n' Cinders » Sat Aug 04, 2018 11:43 pm

So the bottom connection is the exhaust and this is prototypical. All of the climaxs I've seen are plumbed that way. The inner connection is the delivery but Im not sure how the passage goes since there doesnt appear to be any signs of it on your drawings. As for prototypical, this could go either way. The ones I know of have the delivery connection on the steam chest itself, but this may be based on a prototype Im not familiar with that does have the delivery come in on the side of the cylinder.
Either way, thats a nice looking little climax!
-Tristan

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paralleler
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Re: So that is why this does not fit......

Post by paralleler » Sun Aug 05, 2018 1:38 am

Thank you gentlemen. Both the Reedy and Kozo designs have steam entering the side wall of the steam chest and exiting the cylinder at the six o'clock position. Yes, I'd love to see drawings and/or photos of how they did it an actual Climax. I think the builder of #38 tried to be true to the original design. Then I think of how this would have been done and the maintenance challenges posed. Attached is part of the wonderful drawing referenced above via the Railway Preservation News ( http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=41404 ). Yes, can anyone point me to drawings and/or photos of either the cylinder port face or the liner?
Attachments
Climax #9 d.png
Climax #9

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