Cole's Worthington pup question?

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DianneB
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Cole's Worthington pup question?

Post by DianneB » Thu Dec 14, 2017 11:35 am

I have been transcribing the drawings for Cole's Worthington pump to AutoCAD to get everything straight in my mind before I start building one, particularly the porting.

I am good on everything EXCEPT the front passage from the water cylinder to the vertical 1/8" passage that joins the inlet and discharge check passage.

The Coles drawings shows a #38 drilled hole on a diagonal (see attachment #1) with a bit of the face milled out to connect to the water cylinder. The face view however shows a round hole, not oval. I don't like trying to drill on a diagonal to intersect two passage - too much chance of error.
Coles Dwg.jpg
If you have built one of these, how did you do this?

Looking at the face view, I'd be tempted to drill the 1/8" hole sightly higher above the cylinder and to extend the vertical passage to intersect this hole and mill from the hole on the face into the front of the water cylinder.
Front Cylinder Passage.jpg
Always interested in the "voice of experience"!

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NP317
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Re: Cole's Worthington pup question?

Post by NP317 » Thu Dec 14, 2017 11:42 am

Dianne:
I don't have an answer for you (sorry), but I have that Cole's pump kit and plan on building it in the "medium future."

So... Are you willing to share your CAD drawings? I'll gladly cover any costs you incur, to get a copy.
The original faded print I have is barely readable! Perhaps too many copes of copies.

Hoping...
~Russ N

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DianneB
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Re: Cole's Worthington pup question?

Post by DianneB » Thu Dec 14, 2017 12:24 pm

Sure Russ, I will share. Cole's is out of business so it isn't hurting them any.

BClemens
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Re: Cole's Worthington pup question?

Post by BClemens » Thu Dec 14, 2017 1:02 pm

Dianne,
Take into consideration that the drawings you are updating are draftsman hand made drawings. We are used to a CAD system that will project the oval hole due to the angle, but giving and considering the section drawings as they did will assume that you are looking at the 'plan' of a hole.... When you do your conversion using your CAD software, you have the ability to make an armature (if you are working in solids) or inverse of the hole to subtract or slice through that will give you the projected oval hole that you are looking for. Looks like what you're given is a basic location at the bottom of the milled pocket. You will get the angle of the hole by laying out from section BB.
At least, that's the way I see it.... Hope that helps.

BC

bill4227
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Re: Cole's Worthington pup question?

Post by bill4227 » Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:22 pm

Dianne,

I also am getting into building the Cole's pump and would also like an AutoCAD set when you are finished. I have AutoCAD so an elcetronic copy will be OK if you are sharing your work.

Bill

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DianneB
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Re: Cole's Worthington pup question?

Post by DianneB » Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:33 pm

Geez, I should start charging for these and get something for my time! :shock: (Just kidding :wink: )

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Bill Shields
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Re: Cole's Worthington pup question?

Post by Bill Shields » Thu Dec 14, 2017 4:05 pm

now you begin to understand how I feel regarding the myriad of BvB pumps.

put them on a www site and say "come and get 'em"

One of the biggest challenges you are going to have is working out (understanding) what dimensions are important and what are 'just metal with a reference dimension to show approximately where things should be"....something that CAD generally does not like but was a way of life with pen and vellum.

BClemens
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Re: Cole's Worthington pup question?

Post by BClemens » Thu Dec 14, 2017 4:21 pm

Dianne,

Looks like you are duplicating the 2D drawings....that's great but a 3D rendering of that 'PUP' would be super good to use for thorough visualization. The software I use is some old stuff but really good for doing 3D or solids. The plan that you have in hand is imported as an image and from there basically traced into the software. Then from projections of that data a solid is produced. From there you can rotate the part and look into the hole or slice the part on a hole centerline or turn the part for full understanding. Then this software can lay out a surface and convert it to a CAM program - who needs castings anyhow? :)

Very often I must make solid renderings for developing a weld program for the electron beam welder system at a national lab. Most of these are derived from CAD drawings but the welder works in 3D...reason for all of this hopefiully helpful chit chat. I have helped with drive wheel CAM programs from a basic drawing like you are working with.... My name is Bill too.

Talk about thorough understanding - there's that Shields guy!

BC

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DianneB
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Re: Cole's Worthington pup question?

Post by DianneB » Thu Dec 14, 2017 4:40 pm

BClemens wrote:Dianne,

Looks like you are duplicating the 2D drawings
That's what I am doing - duplicating 2D and doing 3 views of each part.

I have worked in 3D to make some relatively simple parts on my 3D printer and investment castings but nothing even remotely this complicated! That is a "learning curve" I don't wish to tackle!!! And, as Bill S. says, some "dimensions" are not specified, like the outside dimensions of the castings, so it requires establishing a "base point" on each view - eg. the centre point of a machine surface - so it can be related to the casting.

Bill: I had considered posting the drawings on my Web site but, if somebody buys and revives the Cole's business, I don't want to be pirating their drawings. (Yes, I know that once an electronic copy is "out there" it can still be found.) I understand "pen & paper" drawings - I started there a LONG time ago and didn't move to CAD until 1987. I would have been doing these drawings for myself anyway so the only question was whether or not to share them.

BClemens
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Re: Cole's Worthington pup question?

Post by BClemens » Thu Dec 14, 2017 5:00 pm

Dianne,
I fully understand. I also agree with the not posting the drawings because at the present time the company may be out of business - but maybe not for good. If someone can pick up that business and make a go, they will need everything with total honest regard that we can do to make it what it can be for some poor slob who thinks being in business is going to make him rich. The motive may be a simple head above the water approach - like help pay for the hobby. Off peach crate!
The drawings are yours to do with what you wish - transpose them to CAD - Fine - for your own use. Everyone will want 'copies' especially (.) file type copies that they can simply load into their computer. That's not fair to even you who took the time to do your own 'refresh' drawings for your understanding of a daunting machine work job - with no available replacement castings.

OK - off the crate again. BC

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NP317
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Re: Cole's Worthington pup question?

Post by NP317 » Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:40 am

Dianne:
If - after these discussions - you are still willing to share your work, I am hoping to acquire only a hard-copy print of the 2D drawings.
I don't need the electronic files. I only wish to replicate the existing drawings.
And I'll happily reward your hard work producing them!
I'll send you a PM.
~Russ N.

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DianneB
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Re: Cole's Worthington pup question?

Post by DianneB » Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:59 am

I think I may just offer paper copies (with a Coles copyright) just to keep things under control.

Have already found a couple of measurement errors on the original drawings - one obviously wrong and another "just a little bit wrong" but not enough to effect function.

I just may hang on to the drawings until I have built my pump in case there are any other errors I haven't caught yet.

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