Wendy vs Ten Wheelers Drive-train

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ChipsAhoy
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Wendy vs Ten Wheelers Drive-train

Post by ChipsAhoy » Fri Feb 09, 2018 10:58 am

Looking at the MEG Wendy, two major castings are unavailable, the Drivers and the Cylinders. Close match is Allens Models Mogul/Ten Wheeler. The cylinders can be made to easily plumb up, bolt up and line up, but there is a minor bore and stroke deal and drive Dia. to contemplate.
Wendy plans call for: 7" dia. driver, with a 1.750 offset making for a 3.50" stroke. Mogul has an 8" driver, 1.625 offset making for a 3.250" stroke.
By the prints the head space on each works out identical, 1/16" on each end. So, headspace, cylinder bore dia, porting is all a wash.
So, what is the downside of using Allens 3.250" stroke and 8" driver in place of the Wendys 3.50" stroke and 7" driver? And, what is the "fix" for the identified problem?
(Will tackle the valve travel problem next.)
I would think that a person would want to change the OVERALL Wendy design as little as possible, considering it is a simple build... a quick way for a beginner to get a relatively acceptable steamer on the rails. So, making this cylinder/driver combo work may help anyone wishing to go down that path.

Scotty

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Re: Wendy vs Ten Wheelers Drive-train

Post by Pontiacguy1 » Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:43 am

I've seen several of these running that were built using the Allen Mogul/Ten Wheeler/American cylinder castings. They run very well. A source for drive wheel castings is Little Engines. Their 0-4-0/0-6-0 switcher wheel castings finish to a 7" diameter, and they have them in heavy and light configurations. They have 13 spokes. They were designed with a 3" stroke. So... you can either offset the crankpin another 1/8", which I believe there is enough meat around the boss for that, or decrease your piston stroke to 3", and use a slightly fatter piston in there. Either way you want to go with it, this combination will work and will make a good locomotive for you. My 2-10-0 uses these 7" drivers and has 2 3/8" bore x 3" stroke cylinders, and it has all the power it needs.

If you can get them, another possible cylinder source would be the Mercer Camelback 0-4-0 cylinders. They are 2" bore x 3" stroke and have plenty of power too. Had an 0-4-0 that used those cylinders on the above-mentioned 7" wheels, and it had plenty of power.

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ChipsAhoy
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Re: Wendy vs Ten Wheelers Drive-train

Post by ChipsAhoy » Fri Feb 09, 2018 12:48 pm

Interesting, I wonder, were those that used Allen cyl and drivers, cut to Allen dimensions or a variant?
The Mercer combo tells me something. Those numbers can be done with Allen cylinders and LE drivers.
I have purchased Allen cylinders when Gene sold them and now Steve sells them. I imagine they use/used different foundrys because the quality is much better now days, so I'm partial to stick with that known quantity. Besides, I have the deminsions at hand and I have screwed up enough of them that I have lots of practice with them.

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Re: Wendy vs Ten Wheelers Drive-train

Post by Pontiacguy1 » Fri Feb 09, 2018 1:17 pm

You're going for the narrow Gauge look, right? I think that the 7" 0-4-0/0-6-0 drivers would give you more of that narrow gauge look than a larger driver turned down really thin would.
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ChipsAhoy
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Re: Wendy vs Ten Wheelers Drive-train

Post by ChipsAhoy » Fri Feb 09, 2018 1:45 pm

Yep, them look perfect. The only way to use the Mogul driver is at or near full diameter.
So I am guessing, get as much stroke out of the cylinder as cylinder will allow and make my drive pin radi fit.
In that case, Wendy had... 7" dia driver, 3.50 stroke and 2" bore as designed.
Using Allens cylinder and LE drivers she will now have 7" dia driver, 3.250 stroke and 2" bore. Only difference is 1/8" stroke in each direction Why won't that work?

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Re: Wendy vs Ten Wheelers Drive-train

Post by Pontiacguy1 » Fri Feb 09, 2018 5:40 pm

It will work. Just make sure that you have enough meat around that crankpin hole before you drill it. I think you will for a 5/8" pin hole. You'll have plenty of power.

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Re: Wendy vs Ten Wheelers Drive-train

Post by Dick_Morris » Fri Feb 09, 2018 10:45 pm

These LE 0-4-0/0-6-4 drivers are machined to give a 3.25 stroke. I ground the crank pin boss with a die grinder so the radius of the boss concentric with the crank pin. Crank pin bore is 5/8". I think they look less chunky with the extra material removed. These casting are about 25 years old, so they might be different if the patterns have been remade. Although these are 13 spoke (which I wanted), my recollection is that my LE drawing showed 12.
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2018-02-09 18.13.21-3 reduced and cropped.jpg

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ChipsAhoy
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Re: Wendy vs Ten Wheelers Drive-train

Post by ChipsAhoy » Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:07 pm

Hey Dick:
I never did see any of your equipment at the track, what did you use these on? Do know the bore and stroke it had? It does look like there is plenty of Meat on it.
Scotty

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Re: Wendy vs Ten Wheelers Drive-train

Post by Dick_Morris » Sat Feb 10, 2018 2:37 am

Scotty - They are the wheels for my long-time USATC Consolidation project. I'm finally getting some time to work on it. Will post photos in my Consolidation thread as I make progress.

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Re: Wendy vs Ten Wheelers Drive-train

Post by Pontiacguy1 » Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:47 am

The ORIGINAL LE 0-4-0/0-6-0 driver castings had 12 spokes. From what I was told by someone from California, there was a fire in the late-60s or very early-70s that damaged this wheel pattern. It was re-made with a much thicker outer rim and with 13 spokes. I know that the wheels have changed spoke patterns sometime in that time frame because my 2-10-0 (which started out life as an 0-4-0) has 4 drivers that have thinner rims and 12 spokes, and 6 drivers that have thicker rims and 13 spokes. The original 0-4-0 wheels were from the early 1960s, and the later wheels were from the early 1970's. It isn't noticeable on the locomotive unless you point it out to someone. Why they decided to change the spoke count when rebuilding that pattern, I have no idea. Maybe Mike V has some information on it.

On boring these wheels, you can use a 3/4" diameter crankpin and have enough meat around it, and you should be able to use a 5/8" crankpin hole that is offset another 1/8" to make a 3.25" stroke, and have enough to do that as well. I think you might get into some trouble if you tried to have a larger crankpin set out farther than for a 3" stroke.

FWIW: I have always thought that a 2-8-0 using the Allen slide valve cylinders and those LE 0-4-0 drivers would be a really nice size and nice looking locomotive. It would be about 25% bigger/longer than the current Allen 2-8-0, would have plenty of power and would really represent a turn-of-the-century general purpose consolidation well.

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Benjamin Maggi
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Re: Wendy vs Ten Wheelers Drive-train

Post by Benjamin Maggi » Fri Mar 02, 2018 10:31 am

I am building a Sweet William, which is an upscaled Sweet Pea. I have been told that the "Meg" design is similar to the Sweet William insofar as it was revised to use CAD design and simplify some parts. For my engine, I didn't want to order castings from the manufacturer in England (Blackgates) at a cost of over $400 for just four drivers. I called Allen Models, Little Engines, and Railroad Supply but all of their drivers were undersize. So, I bought some steel blanks that were 7" in diameter and had them custom milled.

See this page of my build log: http://www.chaski.org/homemachinist/vie ... 5&start=36

If you want spoked wheels this won't help. But, it is food for thought.
"One cannot learn to swim without getting his feet wet." - Benjamin Maggi
- Building: 7.25" gauge "Sweet Pea" named "Catherine"

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Re: Wendy vs Ten Wheelers Drive-train

Post by Benjamin Maggi » Fri Mar 02, 2018 10:33 am

Oh, I forgot to mention. I ran into the same problem (expense) with the cylinders for my Sweet William, so I fabricated them out of cast iron instead. The Allen ones were too small to look right to my eyes. They can be masked behind shrouds, but I didn't want to do that.
"One cannot learn to swim without getting his feet wet." - Benjamin Maggi
- Building: 7.25" gauge "Sweet Pea" named "Catherine"

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