EARLY 4-6-6-4 CHALLENGER. FRAME

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Rwilliams
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Re: EARLY 4-6-6-4 CHALLENGER. FRAME

Post by Rwilliams » Sun Feb 25, 2018 12:32 am

Long ago I was speaking with the late Ralph McChessney of GGLS. His beautiful 1 inch P-10 class SP Pacific had true scale 73 inch drivers yet had the Little Engines cylinder casting and other related castings of the often modeled Little Engines P-4 Pacific. He had worked from original SP drawings to insure the drivers and frame was dead on for an accurate looking model. He then mentioned something about a frame pattern he had made for the ! inch model Pacific or for a smaller 3/4 inch Pacific of the same class. The pattern was cast and sat at the foundry for a month to cure. When the month was up, the frame was hit with a hammer to test the casting quality. If it broke, another casting was made, if not, the frame was considered good to go and went home with him. Not sure where the #2489 resides today, but it was a real class act and looked very realistic indeed.

One day a friend had a beautiful A-6 Atlantic in full Daylight paint colors at GGLS. Ralph had his beautiful Pacific there the same day and we coupled them together in a classic double header photo op. People were shocked to see the SP two locomotives together for the first and only time. Photos were taken for over an hour before the interest was exhausted and the locomotives were put back on the steaming bays.

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johnpenn74
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Re: EARLY 4-6-6-4 CHALLENGER. FRAME

Post by johnpenn74 » Sun Feb 25, 2018 12:28 pm

Evgen,
On a similar note, I believe that Norfolk and Western Y3 (Original 2-8-8-2 USRA design) was also bar type frame. Later designs Y4-y6 were cast locomotive beds.

JP
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EVGEN
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Re: EARLY 4-6-6-4 CHALLENGER. FRAME

Post by EVGEN » Sun Feb 25, 2018 12:45 pm

The steam engines of the series Y-3, Y-4 and Y-5 had bar frames - this is a fact, it's enough just to look at the drawings on the community's NW website. However, how are things with the Challenger class locomotives? Some say that there were bar frame, others say that all locomotives had a cast steel beds. The owners of the DVD disc "EARLY 4-6-6-4 CHALLENGER DRAWINGS" could shed light!

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Comstock-Friend
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Re: EARLY 4-6-6-4 CHALLENGER. FRAME

Post by Comstock-Friend » Sun Feb 25, 2018 7:32 pm

3/4" Friend's Models Challenger I rid myself of (too afraid to walk on the wild side). Bar frames.
100_8789small.jpg
John

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tsph6500
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Re: EARLY 4-6-6-4 CHALLENGER. FRAME

Post by tsph6500 » Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:00 pm

I recall a conversation with a fellow Tinkerbell who told us the sad tale of a bundle of wooden patterns for a set cast iron frames for a 3/4'" Challenger that was tossed out or burned as kindling by unsuspecting descendants of the builder. He had assumed room temperature without informing anyone in the family about the use of these oddly shaped pieces of wood.

I believe one set of frames were cast but the fate of the loco is unknown.
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Chris Hollands
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Re: EARLY 4-6-6-4 CHALLENGER. FRAME

Post by Chris Hollands » Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:29 pm

Why don't you buy the Challenger drawing CD from UP museum ( very cheap for what your getting ) and all your questions will be answered .

Problem solved

EVGEN
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Re: EARLY 4-6-6-4 CHALLENGER. FRAME

Post by EVGEN » Mon Feb 26, 2018 2:13 am

Chris, I'd like to buy the drawing, after I make sure that it contains information of interest to me. As they say, 'be sure the cat's in the bag when you buy the bag'. I believe that there are those who should have purchased this disc.

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Chris Hollands
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Re: EARLY 4-6-6-4 CHALLENGER. FRAME

Post by Chris Hollands » Mon Feb 26, 2018 5:33 pm

If the question you are asking is weather the drawing CD offered for the later challenger has early version frame drawings ( not cast ) then the answer as far I as know is no , it only has the cast frame drawings from what I remember ?

KenG
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Re: EARLY 4-6-6-4 CHALLENGER. FRAME

Post by KenG » Mon Feb 26, 2018 6:44 pm

I recall that Modeltec magazine published a set of drawings for the Challenger around 1990 and I think it covered both batches of the locomotives. Although it seems no one here has a set of the UP Historical Society drawings they may have old copies of Modeltec. My recollection is that the early locomotives did have built up "bar" frames.

The early Challenger drawings are available from the UP Historical Society for $40 which seems a good deal to me.

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JohnHudak
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Re: EARLY 4-6-6-4 CHALLENGER. FRAME

Post by JohnHudak » Mon Feb 26, 2018 10:23 pm

tsph6500 wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:00 pm
I recall a conversation with a fellow Tinkerbell who told us the sad tale of a bundle of wooden patterns for a set cast iron frames for a 3/4'" Challenger that was tossed out or burned as kindling by unsuspecting descendants of the builder. He had assumed room temperature without informing anyone in the family about the use of these oddly shaped pieces of wood.

I believe one set of frames were cast but the fate of the loco is unknown.
Jim, Look at the photo I posted earlier.. I had a set of cast frames that were made by one of the Culps for a 3/4" Challenger.. I was told that he made the pattern as a test for a larger 1-1/2" locomotive.. I don't know how many of the 3/4" castings were made, and I don't know if any were made in 1-1/2"...?
I worked on the Challenger for a while, and sold the project to a friend of mine who really wanted it.. He semi finished it, ran it on air at his track, and then sold it to someone in PA.. I believe that that person sold it to someone in England...
I had the tender chassis at the Cabin Fever show 10-15 years ago sitting on my table..
Here's a video of the Chalenger..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uihYOyVVhDo
And some more pics of the cast frame..
old photos 147.jpg
old photos 148.jpg

Eugene Crowner
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Re: EARLY 4-6-6-4 CHALLENGER. FRAME

Post by Eugene Crowner » Mon Feb 26, 2018 10:38 pm

While it is not too clear to me, when skimming through the book "The Challenger Locomotives by Kratville", the first series of U.P. 4-6-6-4's did not have cast frames. Later the front engines on part of the first series were rebuilt with cast steel frames.

Eugene Crowner

Kimball McGinley
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Re: EARLY 4-6-6-4 CHALLENGER. FRAME

Post by Kimball McGinley » Tue Feb 27, 2018 3:12 pm

I agree; build the locomotive with the level of detail that please YOU.
When I raced my Saturday-night oval track stockcar, pounding out dents was an every week experience. I quickly developed the "10 foot rule", if it looked OK from 10 feet away, then I was done.
I have some nice details on my little 0-4-0, but it has a 1" X 1/2" bar stock frame and I am good with that.

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