Wheels to axles — which Loctite?

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WJH
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Re: Wheels to axles — which Loctite?

Post by WJH »

Harold_V wrote:
WJH wrote: Wed Mar 21, 2018 7:28 pm and a toolpost grinder that can do OD and ID grinding.
In the hopes of enlightening you as to the use of a tool post grinder, please understand that it is not going to be a magical experience. Grinding produces heat, and heat is your enemy. Unless you have a junk lathe (I know you don't have), you won't be able to run coolant, so you're still going to fight sizing, although the one added advantage is the wheel will take what you toss at it, unlike a tool bit.

You will have issues with two things. One is taper. Precision grinders have an upper table that swivels and locks, so taper can be addressed easily. That design also allows for flood coolant, which never sees the ways. The other feature that will be troubling is that lathes don't have fine feed capability, unlike a precision grinder. When it gets down to removing a tenth or two, it's more by luck than by talent, although if you become very familiar with your machine you may be able to prove me wrong with that problem. A high resolution DRO might help, and I see you alluded to one.

Over all, you will find that you are more able to hit tight tolerance dimensions with a tool post grinder than with a turning tool, and it should yield a better finish, but don't lose sight of the fact that you'll still be operating a lathe.

I'm looking forward to a report on your success.

H
I am excited to give it a try. Will be a while before my Pacific project is at the stage of turning wheels, but when I get home next, I will take some scrap metal and practice doing interference fits and give the tool post grinder a try.


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Trainman4602
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Re: Wheels to axles — which Loctite?

Post by Trainman4602 »

Hi Jerry
Here is a link to the Tubalcane my friend Lyle Peterson on tool post grinding. You may already have it but here it is for others as well
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHNLSnFSKrM
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WJH
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Re: Wheels to axles — which Loctite?

Post by WJH »

Trainman4602 wrote:Hi Jerry
Here is a link to the Tubalcane my friend Lyle Peterson on tool post grinding. You may already have it but here it is for others as well
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHNLSnFSKrM
Good video, who is Jerry?


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Harold_V
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Re: Wheels to axles — which Loctite?

Post by Harold_V »

A comment. At approximately 9:30 of the video, a comment about presenting the diamond to the work @ 90° angle is not considered to be good shop practice. Diamond holders are generally made such that the diamond is presented at an angle (10° is adequate), so as the diamond wears, it can be rotated slightly, presenting a new, sharp edge to the wheel. That option is lost when the diamond is presented squarely to the wheel.

A dull diamond, while it still dresses, creates a less than sharp wheel. So then, if one mounts a diamond, it should be such that the point can be set at exact center height, but it should see the wheel at an angle.

Dressing on center is especially important, as any deviation from center will dress an angle on the wheel that won't be parallel to the grind. That condition eliminates the wheel's ability to "spark", which is what improves the finish of the grind.

H
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WJH
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Wheels to axles — which Loctite?

Post by WJH »

Harold_V wrote:A comment. At approximately 9:30 of the video, a comment about presenting the diamond to the work @ 90° angle is not considered to be good shop practice. Diamond holders are generally made such that the diamond is presented at an angle (10° is adequate), so as the diamond wears, it can be rotated slightly, presenting a new, sharp edge to the wheel. That option is lost when the diamond is presented squarely to the wheel.

A dull diamond, while it still dresses, creates a less than sharp wheel. So then, if one mounts a diamond, it should be such that the point can be set at exact center height, but it should see the wheel at an angle.

Dressing on center is especially important, as any deviation from center will dress an angle on the wheel that won't be parallel to the grind. That condition eliminates the wheel's ability to "spark", which is what improves the finish of the grind.

H
Good to know!
I have one of those HF carbide grinders, installed a white wheel on it for grinding HSS. It never cut worth a damn until I dressed it with one of those spiked wheels, I could not believe the difference it made! Actually became useful.


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Harold_V
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Re: Wheels to axles — which Loctite?

Post by Harold_V »

Diamond dressing for offhand grinding isn't a good idea, due to the fact that a diamond creates a totally smooth (although sharp) surface. It tends to act like a bearing, floating on the surface of the item being ground, or, in this case, polished. When it does cut, it does so by creating a lot more heat than a more roughly dressed wheel, and tends to cut slower. Your experience is exactly what I'd have predicted.

You get around the finely dressed surface by using a dressing stick (has to be properly applied--a sharp corner) or one of those impact dressers you mentioned. I favor the dressing stick because it allows for better control, generally resulting in a lot less wheel being lost, although a wheel prepared by an impact dresser will usually cut slightly better. The additional loss of wheel due to its use, for me, makes it not a good bargain. Great for a large, wide wheel like might be found in a welding shop, but not so good for the fine, small wheels we use to sharpen HSS.

H
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John Hasler
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Re: Wheels to axles — which Loctite?

Post by John Hasler »

Harold_V wrote: Sun Mar 25, 2018 1:23 am Diamond dressing for offhand grinding isn't a good idea, due to the fact that a diamond creates a totally smooth (although sharp) surface. It tends to act like a bearing, floating on the surface of the item being ground, or, in this case, polished. When it does cut, it does so by creating a lot more heat than a more roughly dressed wheel, and tends to cut slower. Your experience is exactly what I'd have predicted.

You get around the finely dressed surface by using a dressing stick (has to be properly applied--a sharp corner) or one of those impact dressers you mentioned. I favor the dressing stick because it allows for better control, generally resulting in a lot less wheel being lost, although a wheel prepared by an impact dresser will usually cut slightly better. The additional loss of wheel due to its use, for me, makes it not a good bargain. Great for a large, wide wheel like might be found in a welding shop, but not so good for the fine, small wheels we use to sharpen HSS.

H
What kind of dressing stick do you use? Seems like the term gets applied to everything that is ever used to dress a stone.
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Greg_Lewis
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Re: Wheels to axles — which Loctite?

Post by Greg_Lewis »

Say, how about we start a new thread about dressing grinding wheels?
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Harold_V
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Re: Wheels to axles — which Loctite?

Post by Harold_V »

Greg_Lewis wrote: Sun Mar 25, 2018 11:39 am Say, how about we start a new thread about dressing grinding wheels?
I expect this is intended to get this particular thread back on topic.
Wheel dressing has already been discussed. For those with an interest, here's a link:

viewtopic.php?f=44&t=75985

H
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John Hasler
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Re: Wheels to axles — which Loctite?

Post by John Hasler »

Ok. I read the entire thread. Very educational.

I have a 1"x1"x6" dressing stick. Now, exactly how do I *use* it?
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Greg_Lewis
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Re: Wheels to axles — which Loctite?

Post by Greg_Lewis »

Thanks for the link, Harold. Great info.
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Harold_V
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Re: Wheels to axles — which Loctite?

Post by Harold_V »

John Hasler wrote: Sun Mar 25, 2018 8:08 pm Ok. I read the entire thread. Very educational.

I have a 1"x1"x6" dressing stick. Now, exactly how do I *use* it?
I don't use a rest when dressing or grinding. Others may or may not.
That said, the only real negative aspect of using a dressing stick is the idea of using a flat surface against a wheel. That tends to create a wheel that cuts every bit as poorly as one dressed by a diamond.

For best results, you want a sharp corner when dressing. I tend to favor a corner of my stick, although they do eventually get rounded. Still because a dressing stick of this type is made up of a multitude of smaller bits, vitrified. As they dull, they shed, exposing new, sharp bits which will do an admirable job of dressing. So then, hold your stick steadily (use a rest if that's your style) and, using an edge (corner),move it across the face of the wheel so it removes the surface. Don't let it rub, as that dulls the newly dressed surface, defeating the purpose of dressing. Use the stick enough to get the wheel running true, with a flat periphery. Done.

If your wheel is harder than recommended for the assigned task, the wheel will eventually glaze over. If it stays round and doesn't develop a bounce, it will actually get somewhat shiny. That's a good indication it's time to dress again. You'll notice a distinct difference in how well the wheel grinds as it dulls, and how hot the work gets. A sharp wheel cuts relatively cool, while a dull wheel creates a ton of heat and does very little work.

Even without a rest, you can get quite good at creating a smooth running, flat wheel. Once you master the skill, you can dress with very little loss of wheel.

There's nothing wrong with using a diamond to get a wheel in good condition. Just rough up the resulting surface with a dressing stick before putting the wheel to work. The sole exeption would be if the dressed wheel is NOT for offhand grinding, in which case you use it only after diamond dressing (an example would be a wheel on a surface grinder---it should not be hand dressed).

Greg, you're very welcome. I hope you found something useful.

H
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