Anyone else like to juggle between machines?

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shild
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Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2018 11:58 pm

Anyone else like to juggle between machines?

Post by shild »

In my quest to be a faster machinist, I've been trying to learn to juggle between doing a cut on the cutoff bandsaw, a pass on the lathe and a pass on the mill. Anyone else do this? By the way, I've been doing most of what you guys told me to do to get faster. More tooling, angled tool racks, stubby drill set, the stick method, the laid out tool method, power feeds, quick change toolpost, the ever so classic chuck keys hanging from a chain. What else should I do here? Maybe I should have the mil/drill on the left of the desk instead of right? Was thinking about pedals on the floor to control the spindle? Should probably get a keyless integrated chuck for the mill shouldn't I?
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Harold_V
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Re: Anyone else like to juggle between machines?

Post by Harold_V »

The best advice anyone can give you is to learn machining properly. When you do, speed will come. That was the advice dispensed to me when I was an apprentice. Turned out to be quite true.

One thing to keep in mind. Any job worth doing is worth doing well (properly). If you don't have time to do it right, why would you assume you'd have time to do it more than once?

In regards to juggling machines, yeah, that's been done on more than one occasion. It's not so easy with small work, as cuts generally are short lived, but for large work, it can work quite nicely. Guys fortunate to have CNC's with tool changers also run more than one machine when required.

H
Wise people talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to say something.
BClemens
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Re: Anyone else like to juggle between machines?

Post by BClemens »

There is no benefit to simultaneously running multiple machine tools in a small one man shop. Using a cutoff saw while running either a lathe or mill is sort-of a no brainer but running the mill while running the lathe only adds time (almost double) to a task - that probably should take more concentration than 'part time'. Also; the chances of a crash are too great to risk a machine. Even in a shop of 50 machinists, the benefit even though realized, is not enough to compare to a one man shop. (Like about a 5% reduction in time) Some operations like surface milling a sizable part during a lathe operation is worthy of consideration - but with care.
Concentrate on the 'flow through' of a machined part and its steps of machining on your multiple machines, even sometimes back and forth from one to the other and back again. Working multiple 'production' parts should also follow that same principle - take them all to a point, then they all follow with a schedule through your shop machines. Savor that, and not attempting to short-cut a task. Each part should be the project at hand in your one man operation...
BC
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Fred_V
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Re: Anyone else like to juggle between machines?

Post by Fred_V »

I see where your biggest problem lies: machine size. With what you have you can only take tiny cuts at a time. My first lathe was a Craftsman and would only take finish cuts.
At all costs avoid taking short cuts as Harold advises. you pay 5 times for a mistake. That is a HUGE time loss.
Fred V
Pensacola, Fl.
SteveM
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Re: Anyone else like to juggle between machines?

Post by SteveM »

Planning your operations will be time well invested.

When I have a bunch of operations to do on a part, I write it all down like choreography.

I put dimensions into a spreadsheet with calculations and labels, so I have something like:

1: Face work piece
2: Move carriage stop to first position and pull part out to meet tool, tighten collet.
3: Move carriage stop to second position
4: Zero carriage stop
5: Turn up to carriage stop to 30 on the compound in three steps of 10, measuring and adjusting between cuts as needed.
6: Move carriage stop to third position
7: Turn up to carriage stop to 50 on the compound in five steps of 10, measuring and adjusting between cuts as needed.
8: Move carriage stop to fourth position
9: Part

Steve
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gwrdriver
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Re: Anyone else like to juggle between machines?

Post by gwrdriver »

I assume you are building a model, not running a mini-job shop. I don't juggle machines, except perhaps for making a cut in the bandsaw while working on another machine, but then a bandsaw does one job, in one way, and when completed it stops itself. You don't have to "think" for it or about it. I would never EVER put on a cut on the lathe, for instance, and walk away from it for any reason. I've seen the train wrecks (no pun intended) which have resulted.

There are specific bits of models I greatly enjoy making (and of course some I don't) . . . but what I discovered is there might only be a few of those really fun bits on a given locomotive, and the opportunity to enjoy making those bits might only come around every few years (if ever.) So I learned to relax and enjoy the process, slow down and smell the tapping fluid so to speak, because the worst mistakes I've made, the most time I've wasted, were because I got in a hurry.
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Pontiacguy1
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Re: Anyone else like to juggle between machines?

Post by Pontiacguy1 »

I echo what GWRdriver said... Biggest thing that slows you down and will also cause a lot of frustration and anger, is making a mistake and messing up a part, especially one which took a while to make in the first place. It seems to me that it is more likely to happen the closer to finished the part gets.

Also, be careful when handling those small parts. I've made some very small parts before and then dropped them or knocked them off of a table and could never find them again! I spent enough time looking for it that I could have made it over again, and ended up doing just that. Talk about a time-waster! Took 3 times as long as it should have.
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NP317
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Re: Anyone else like to juggle between machines?

Post by NP317 »

Shild:
Nice to see your "Little Machining World" in your basement. My shops started the same way.
I like the machine arrangement because you have desk space in the middle among them.
'Makes a good place to transfer parts and have your drawings & process plans available.

SteveM's suggestions of creating a process plan is spot on! I actually taught that on a University level.
I used to tell my Engineering Students that when they solved those 3-D machining plans while having their morning shower, they were then becoming machinists!
It works.

Keep making parts!
~RN
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Greg_Lewis
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Re: Anyone else like to juggle between machines?

Post by Greg_Lewis »

SteveM wrote: Wed Apr 11, 2018 7:24 am Planning your operations will be time well invested.

When I have a bunch of operations to do on a part, I write it all down like choreography.

I put dimensions into a spreadsheet with calculations and labels, so I have something like:

1: Face work piece
2: Move carriage stop to first position and pull part out to meet tool, tighten collet.
3: Move carriage stop to second position
4: Zero carriage stop
5: Turn up to carriage stop to 30 on the compound in three steps of 10, measuring and adjusting between cuts as needed.
6: Move carriage stop to third position
7: Turn up to carriage stop to 50 on the compound in five steps of 10, measuring and adjusting between cuts as needed.
8: Move carriage stop to fourth position
9: Part

Steve

I use a similar plan.

1: Take about two hours in the morning to eat, read the newspaper and check email.
2: Wander out to the shop and check the mousetraps, dispose of mouse corpse (seven so far), turn on the lights.
3: Try to decide what to work on.
4: Grub around under the workbench and pull out the project that got sidelined seven years ago.
5: Scratch head. Yawn. Go in for lunch and nap.
6: Make a run to the hardware store.
7: Spend a half hour looking for some parts from the above delayed project that I’m certain I’d already made.
8: Give up search and spend an hour and a half making replacement parts only to find the originals on the workbench in plain sight.
9: Take afternoon snack break, commence unsuccessful search for a piece of ¾ angle I thought I had.
10: Clean up, put away tools, put fresh bait in mousetraps, return to house for dinner.
Greg Lewis, Prop.
Eyeball Engineering — Home of the dull toolbit.
Our motto: "That looks about right."
Celebrating 35 years of turning perfectly good metal into bits of useless scrap.
SteveM
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Re: Anyone else like to juggle between machines?

Post by SteveM »

Yea Greg - that's all the preliminary work before IO get to step one, except that I start with coffee.

Steve
RET
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Location: Toronto, Canada

Re: Anyone else like to juggle between machines?

Post by RET »

Hi shld,

Everything that's been said above is good advice and should be taken seriously. From the pictures, what you have is good enough to start with, but if you are serious about building, as Fred says, you need bigger, more accurate equipment and more space. For instance, my shop is in a room that is 13 by 26 feet and the machines and cupboards fill all of that space. To answer your original question, in 99.9% of the cases trying to run multiple machines at once doesn't really buy you anything and sooner or later you will goof and mess everything up.

A full size vertical mill with a good three axis readout would be a great addition, plus a lathe (10" x 36" minimum). For machine tools, there really is no substitute for weight; my 13" x 48" South Bend lathe weighs 1500 pounds while the Bridgeport weighs 2,000 pounds (in Harold's eyes, these are light machines and he's right). Both of these came to me second hand, but with them, I can routinely work to a thousandth of an inch; and with the readout on the mill I can work to tenths (the readout is accurate to one micron, but the mill can't hold that). Also remember, you can do small work accurately on a big machine, but you can't do big work on a little machine. Your desk is heavy enough that you could mount a small CNC mill on it like the one I made using the Bridgeport.

You also need good measuring equipment so you can tell when you are where you need to be. Get good enough so you can easily make interchangeable parts, not parts that have to be individually fitted together. Don't get discouraged, that doesn't happen overnight. When I look back, I've been doing this kind of "nonsense" as a hobby for well over 50 years and I still don't know it all!

Also, don't rush the job. For many of the things I make, I go through two and many times three designs before I get to the point of cutting metal. Some things I've had in my head for over a year or more before I actually made them; the Big Boy burners are a perfect example of that, and when I did, they actually worked!

For multiple parts, use the "batch" method by performing the same operation on all of the parts before moving on to the next.

Probably the most important piece of advice is to have a goal to work to, but enjoy the journey it takes to get there.

Personally, I get great satisfaction when I make something and when it is finished; it actually works the way it is supposed to, especially if it is a design or invention that is my own.

Hope this helps a bit.

Richard Trounce.
RET
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Re: Anyone else like to juggle between machines?

Post by RET »

Hi shld,

If I were you, I would stay away from control pedals on the floor. They are potentially dangerous. All you would have to do is step on one by mistake when you have your hands in the machine and "zip." This is one thing you have to keep uppermost in your mind; power equipment is inherently dangerous! Always think about what you are going to do before you do it and what the consequences may be if you goof up.

I would say that generally speaking, metal working tools are safer because you don't have to get your fingers right in where the "action" is, but there is still lots of scope for injury, especially when your attention is distracted. Machine tools will cut metal easily; they will cut you even easier and they can pull you in before you realize whats happening. By the time you figure out what's going on, its too late.

Yes, you may be able to figure out how to speed things up, but you have to always keep safety in mind; both your own, children, and anyone else who may be with you.

Richard Trounce.
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