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Union copper tube to 1/4-40 MTP ?
Re: Union copper tube to 1/4-40 MTP ?
Very pretty work!
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Wise people talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to say something.
Re: Union copper tube to 1/4-40 MTP ?
Thanks for the link to your web page David! I learned a lot.
I think the work is beyond my WWII 10" Southbend lathe (which is badly worn and loose) but, being retired, I can't afford a new precision lathe. Still, it is good to learn!
I think the work is beyond my WWII 10" Southbend lathe (which is badly worn and loose) but, being retired, I can't afford a new precision lathe. Still, it is good to learn!
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10 Wheeler Rob
- Posts: 1546
- Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2006 2:44 pm
- Location: East Hartford, CT
Re: Union copper tube to 1/4-40 MTP ?
I also make my own unions. But I use commercial compression brass tube nuts. I use one size smaller than the tube size it's made for. Bore the nut to accept a lathe made feral and make a mating feral from hex stock with a threaded end screw the nut onto. The hex feral can have either external thread or an internal thread. The feral that fits into the tube nut can either have socket for soldering tube into or a MTP thread for screwing on the tubing.
Re: Union copper tube to 1/4-40 MTP ?
Hi Dianne,
I'm glad you found the information useful.
To be sure, what I have shown is not precision machine work. It's pretty quick and dirty, but, it works well. There are only two dimensions that require a micrometer or caliper, those are the two diameters of the cone. Even those diameters will work fine given plus or minus a few thousands. The rest of the measuring is with a 6 inch scale, the graduations on the tailstock handwheel, and a dial indicator on the saddle.
It is all basic facing, turning and drilling. If your lathe is not up to these basic tasks, you are doomed to purchase everything you need at premium prices. It sounds like financially, that is not really an option either. I'm not sure what to tell you. I hope you find what you need.
David
I'm glad you found the information useful.
To be sure, what I have shown is not precision machine work. It's pretty quick and dirty, but, it works well. There are only two dimensions that require a micrometer or caliper, those are the two diameters of the cone. Even those diameters will work fine given plus or minus a few thousands. The rest of the measuring is with a 6 inch scale, the graduations on the tailstock handwheel, and a dial indicator on the saddle.
It is all basic facing, turning and drilling. If your lathe is not up to these basic tasks, you are doomed to purchase everything you need at premium prices. It sounds like financially, that is not really an option either. I'm not sure what to tell you. I hope you find what you need.
David
Re: Union copper tube to 1/4-40 MTP ?
Hi Dianne,
David's "how to" page is very good. That's the same technique I use, but instead of a cone on the ferrule, I file a ball shape. Both techniques work, but the ball has a smaller contact area in the female cone and thus should seal better. I also have a supply of Viton "O" rings and stainless steel balls so I can make my own check valves, etc. sometimes as part of the fitting. When you get into the area of making your own fittings, there is almost no limit other than your imagination to what you can do. Just make sure you use bronze for the parts that contact steam. Since I have the little CNC mill I can cut my own hex (or square) flats where I want to on the appropriate parts so I don't need to start with hex stock. Sometimes this can be an advantage.
My 13" South Bend was made in 1943 so its about the same vintage as yours. If necessary, by playing around with shims you should be able to tighten up the spindle bearings which would help a lot. Don't take out all the play, it needs between 1 & 2 thousandths both horizontally and vertically. If the bearings start to get hot, its too tight. They should be warm after a couple of hours running. South Bend spindle bearings are simple, but with a little care, they last almost forever. The bed on mine should be rescraped, but its pretty good just the way it is.
What ever you do, don't get discouraged, just enjoy what you can do. It took me over 40 years to assemble and build what I have; its a journey of a lifetime.
Perhaps some of this will help.
Richard Trounce.
David's "how to" page is very good. That's the same technique I use, but instead of a cone on the ferrule, I file a ball shape. Both techniques work, but the ball has a smaller contact area in the female cone and thus should seal better. I also have a supply of Viton "O" rings and stainless steel balls so I can make my own check valves, etc. sometimes as part of the fitting. When you get into the area of making your own fittings, there is almost no limit other than your imagination to what you can do. Just make sure you use bronze for the parts that contact steam. Since I have the little CNC mill I can cut my own hex (or square) flats where I want to on the appropriate parts so I don't need to start with hex stock. Sometimes this can be an advantage.
My 13" South Bend was made in 1943 so its about the same vintage as yours. If necessary, by playing around with shims you should be able to tighten up the spindle bearings which would help a lot. Don't take out all the play, it needs between 1 & 2 thousandths both horizontally and vertically. If the bearings start to get hot, its too tight. They should be warm after a couple of hours running. South Bend spindle bearings are simple, but with a little care, they last almost forever. The bed on mine should be rescraped, but its pretty good just the way it is.
What ever you do, don't get discouraged, just enjoy what you can do. It took me over 40 years to assemble and build what I have; its a journey of a lifetime.
Perhaps some of this will help.
Richard Trounce.
Re: Union copper tube to 1/4-40 MTP ?
My "Heavy 10" did war service and then spent 20 years in a community college auto shop so you can imagine the abuse it took LOL!
The bed has a 0.0015" drop at the chuck but the biggest bug-a-boo is that the cross-slide ways and lead screw are terribly worn.
I am at an age where I have to start thinning things out soon so the Southbend will become someone else's problem
The bed has a 0.0015" drop at the chuck but the biggest bug-a-boo is that the cross-slide ways and lead screw are terribly worn.
I am at an age where I have to start thinning things out soon so the Southbend will become someone else's problem
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makinsmoke
- Posts: 2262
- Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2003 12:56 pm
- Location: Texas Hill Country
Re: Union copper tube to 1/4-40 MTP ?
Hi Dianne,
I rescued my 1940 Quartermaster delivered Heavy 10 from a closed motorcycle shop.
It had a chunk taken out of the ways near the headstock I’m assuming to clear something being turned...
Ways are worn where yours are. 220v motor converted to 110. Lots of goodies came with it.
No way I can do precision work or long turnings but it’ll cut decently as long as I pay attention.
Is your lead screw worn or the half nuts?
There is a good group of folks here on Chaski on the machining pages and a great Southbend Lathe group on Yahoo Groups.
Let them know what you are looking for. You may find parts very reasonable from understanding members.
It’s all about knowing where your wear is and taking up backlash. Don’t be dissuaded from trying some of the work here.
Take care,
Brian
I rescued my 1940 Quartermaster delivered Heavy 10 from a closed motorcycle shop.
It had a chunk taken out of the ways near the headstock I’m assuming to clear something being turned...
Ways are worn where yours are. 220v motor converted to 110. Lots of goodies came with it.
No way I can do precision work or long turnings but it’ll cut decently as long as I pay attention.
Is your lead screw worn or the half nuts?
There is a good group of folks here on Chaski on the machining pages and a great Southbend Lathe group on Yahoo Groups.
Let them know what you are looking for. You may find parts very reasonable from understanding members.
It’s all about knowing where your wear is and taking up backlash. Don’t be dissuaded from trying some of the work here.
Take care,
Brian
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makinsmoke
- Posts: 2262
- Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2003 12:56 pm
- Location: Texas Hill Country
Re: Union copper tube to 1/4-40 MTP ?
The size of stuff being discussed here can probably be done mostly with the compound.
Other than setup that takes the cross slide and lead screw out of the equation.
Other than setup that takes the cross slide and lead screw out of the equation.
Re: Union copper tube to 1/4-40 MTP ?
The ways on the cross-slide (front to back) are tight when the tool holder is nearest to you and farthest from you and loose in the middle. the cross-slide leadscrew and/or the follower nut are horribly worn - there is almost 1/4" play front-to-back! If I want to do reasonable accurate turning, a stiff bungee cord pulling the cross-slide toward me takes up the slack LOL!
Parts are available for this lathe and I had considered rebuilding it but I have never bothered. I don't do a lot of precision machining and if I did do small stuff often, it would be much nicer to work on a small tabletop lathe.
Parts are available for this lathe and I had considered rebuilding it but I have never bothered. I don't do a lot of precision machining and if I did do small stuff often, it would be much nicer to work on a small tabletop lathe.
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makinsmoke
- Posts: 2262
- Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2003 12:56 pm
- Location: Texas Hill Country
Re: Union copper tube to 1/4-40 MTP ?
Hi Dianne,
It won’t help the ways but folks have temporarily taken out the backlash by putting in washers. Just make sure you tighten up and take it out before cutting each time. Good practice even with new machines.
This guy makes new nuts and repairs the screws.
He has quite a bit of stuff for sale on his ebay site.
https://www.m.ebay.com/itm/south-bend-l ... 2311941440
But I hear ya. A nice Sherline tabletop would be pretty sweet! Thought about a trade?
It won’t help the ways but folks have temporarily taken out the backlash by putting in washers. Just make sure you tighten up and take it out before cutting each time. Good practice even with new machines.
This guy makes new nuts and repairs the screws.
He has quite a bit of stuff for sale on his ebay site.
https://www.m.ebay.com/itm/south-bend-l ... 2311941440
But I hear ya. A nice Sherline tabletop would be pretty sweet! Thought about a trade?
Re: Union copper tube to 1/4-40 MTP ?
Hi Dianne,
My cross slide was the same as yours so a long time ago I took the carriage off, made my own dovetail cutter from a broken tractor drawbar & put the carriage on the mill. I took just enough off the ends so it was straight across. When I reassembled it, I used Tempur tape (1/2" wide teflon tape with glue on one side like scotch tape) on the cross slide. As long as there is no oil on the cross slide, it works perfectly. With the tapered gib, you can take all the play out.
You could probably soft solder a shim on the tapered gib for the same result. I got a new nut for the cross slide, but you could probably make your own if you wanted the grief. Inside acme threads aren't easy to cut and the taps are expensive.
That's what I did. Don't know if it helps or not
Richard Trounce.
My cross slide was the same as yours so a long time ago I took the carriage off, made my own dovetail cutter from a broken tractor drawbar & put the carriage on the mill. I took just enough off the ends so it was straight across. When I reassembled it, I used Tempur tape (1/2" wide teflon tape with glue on one side like scotch tape) on the cross slide. As long as there is no oil on the cross slide, it works perfectly. With the tapered gib, you can take all the play out.
You could probably soft solder a shim on the tapered gib for the same result. I got a new nut for the cross slide, but you could probably make your own if you wanted the grief. Inside acme threads aren't easy to cut and the taps are expensive.
That's what I did. Don't know if it helps or not
Richard Trounce.
Re: Union copper tube to 1/4-40 MTP ?
Thanks for the suggestions guys!
$85 isn't a bad price for a new leadscrew and nut! (It will have to wait for next month's pension cheque LOL!) A trade would be good but all my live steam friends are also in the down-sizing phase and don't want to trade LOL!
No Richard I DON'T want to cut internal Acme threads!
$85 isn't a bad price for a new leadscrew and nut! (It will have to wait for next month's pension cheque LOL!) A trade would be good but all my live steam friends are also in the down-sizing phase and don't want to trade LOL!
No Richard I DON'T want to cut internal Acme threads!