Mogul Kit Differences

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Mr_Blonde
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Joined: Sun May 06, 2018 10:37 pm

Re: Mogul Kit Differences

Post by Mr_Blonde » Thu Jul 19, 2018 12:02 pm

To answer your question Ken, I have experience in welding (stick, MIG, TIG), casting, and machining. I don't claim to be an expert in any of those fields, but I am comfortable with those processes.

I do understand that no kit will be accurate to that locomotive specifically. I asked this question because some vendors do not mention which locomotive they based their model on. For the record, Little Engines Mogul is based on a Baldwin. I am not opposed to kit bashing, but I am hoping that one kit will get me a good platform to start on.

I do plan on buying drawings to compare.

I am affiliated with the Chula Vista live stream club. Only a couple of the regulars have stream, but I do ask a lot of questions. I was thinking of joining Riverside which is exclusively steam.

Thanks for the info on 1828. It never ceases to amaze me how talented and creative people in this hobby are. The amount of work people put in does nothing more than increase my respect for you all. Thank you!

Kyle

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kenrinc
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Re: Mogul Kit Differences

Post by kenrinc » Thu Jul 19, 2018 1:14 pm

Excellent! :mrgreen: Sounds like you got what you need to get started. Get it done.

Ken-

Steve Alley
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Re: Mogul Kit Differences

Post by Steve Alley » Thu Jul 19, 2018 1:56 pm

Sir
Hello I am Steve Alley owner of Allen Models, So what kit is the best to fit your locomotive you want to build. Well you pick a difficult one. It has the looks in area's of a Allen engine but the cylinder is piston valve and we offer only Side valve. Other than that its fits with our castings. So I am not here to point any witch direction. Just to point out there is not one kit that fits the bill. This is not uncommon in our hobby. There was so many Manufacture of engines and different wheel arrangements. Ours is for the 1900 and beyond style. So it will fit closer to your looks. but like I said the piston valve arrangement is the key thing you have to pick on. Please buy plans first, this is the correct starting point. We have 98 % of casting in stock at any give point. We do help out with questions and also there is builders groups to join. I hope this helps.
Steve Alley

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BAdams
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Location: Moreno Valley, CA

Re: Mogul Kit Differences

Post by BAdams » Thu Jul 19, 2018 2:10 pm

Kyle,

Feel free to come on by Riverside Live Steamers any second or fourth Sunday of the month for Run Days, or the Saturday following the first Run Day of the month for our work days.

We have lots of good folks that love to talk steam!!

Brook


Brook Adams
Secretary - Riverside Live Steamers

Mr_Blonde
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Re: Mogul Kit Differences

Post by Mr_Blonde » Sun Jul 22, 2018 11:18 am

Hi Steve,

Thank you for reaching out and adding to this post your knowledge and experience. It may come to "kit bashing" multiple kits to get close to what I am trying to achieve. I did notice from your site that some of the general dimensions do match my locomotive. It is also good to know that you have most of the castings available currently.

Brook,
I have been meaning to make it up there, thank you for the welcome invite! Hopefully I will be out there soon.

Kyle

Berkman
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Re: Mogul Kit Differences

Post by Berkman » Sun Jul 22, 2018 11:44 am

Someone built a really nice Southern pacific 2-6-0 from a LE kit. No real changes other than aesthetics. Honestly I'd go that route. Outside valve gear is much easier to work on and frees up space under the frame. Building a "stock" LE 2-6-0 would be much easier than putting LE cylinders on a allen frame etc.

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Dick_Morris
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Re: Mogul Kit Differences

Post by Dick_Morris » Sun Jul 22, 2018 6:04 pm

There are a few kit bashing things that can be done fairly easily, without major engineering -

Use spacers and thicker lagging to get the larger wagon top diameter of the boiler with the actual boiler shell not having the step.

Adjust the drive wheel spacing (If the distance from the main driver to the cylinders changes, changes to valve gear may be necessary).

Use drive wheel castings of the same diameter but different appearance from another manufacture.

Change the appearance of the rods.

Change the appearance and location of domes (although this might require boiler adjustments).

Cab appearance.

Tender tank appearance and spacing of trucks.

Accessories and their location - bell, injectors, injector start valves, and headlight.

I think RRSC may have gone to piston valves in the more recent production of their Atlantic and Pacific, but for many years they used slide valves that simulated piston valves. Their drawings might give you some ideas on adapting a slide valve cylinder block to get the appearance you want.

A couple of challenges you may need to overcome -

Most designs use alligator crossheads, where the guides are above and below the piston rod. 1629 uses Laird crossheads with two guides above the piston rod. The crosshead and the attachment of the guides to the cylinder head is different between the two. I'm having to make my own patterns and casting for the crossheads for my locomotive although they could also be made by fabrication and silver soldering.

The smoke box diameter for 1629 appears to be fairly small. That may cause some grief in getting a cylinder block saddle that will machine to the correct radius.

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Bill Shields
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Re: Mogul Kit Differences

Post by Bill Shields » Mon Jul 23, 2018 6:19 am

I have always made my Laird crossheads by fabrication and assembly / soldering techniques.

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cbrew
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Re: Mogul Kit Differences

Post by cbrew » Mon Jul 23, 2018 8:23 am

if your idea is to build the 1629, because of the inward angle of the cylinders. I do not believe any castings are on the market that will fit the bill.
but the Allen model cylinders would be a great starting point and fab up the steam check to look like the piston valve assembly while leaving the slide valve.
If it is not live steam. its not worth it.

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Marty_Knox
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Re: Mogul Kit Differences

Post by Marty_Knox » Mon Jul 23, 2018 9:05 am

Another thing to consider is the boiler. The RRS Mogul has a 7 3/4" OD boiler, while the Allen and Little Engines use an 8 5/8" OD boiler.

Berkman
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Re: Mogul Kit Differences

Post by Berkman » Mon Jul 23, 2018 9:58 am

Here's a video i found of the LE 2-6-0 as a SP 1829. I would go this route, it is very similar visually and you'd be happier in the long run with outside valve gear.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENfi6uhw83A

Not sure if the owner of this is a member on here or not.

Mr_Blonde
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Re: Mogul Kit Differences

Post by Mr_Blonde » Tue Jul 24, 2018 7:37 pm

Hi Berkman,

I will definitely consider the option of using the LE kit and changing the aesthetics. I know the CVLS club president did something similar with his 10 wheeler. He did also mention that outside gear would save me some headaches down the road, since he has experience with that on his 10 wheeler.
Thanks for posting that video of 1829. I haven't seen that so it gives me an idea of how someone approached that mogul.

Dick,

Thanks for the comprehensive list of changes I can make to a mogul in order to get my design closer to 1629. I think the boiler is around 8" OD, but I need to check my notes. If the boiler needs to be larger to accommodate a saddle, that may be the way it has to be. I think a bigger boiler will only help in my opinion. I'm on the fence about using slide valves over spool, but luckily I have not committed either way.

Question for Dick and Bill (or anyone who has done this),

Do you have any documentation of how you built your Laird crossheads? I am curious of the amount of work involved. Did you make your own cylinders as well?

Cbrew,

I see what you are saying, good catch. I wonder if it would be possible to add an angled "spacer" or machining the angle into the cylinder assembly. I imagine the timing and drive links might need to change if I did that.

General boiler question,

Do companies such as LE or Allen sell boilers? It looked to me that a boiler had to be ordered from a boiler maker seperately. I imagined the manufacturer would ask what engine you had, perhaps the kit you purchased, and you made it custom to what you want. If that is not the case then I misunderstood that.

This is great feedback, thanks!

Kyle

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