WHO NEEDS CNC?

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Trainman4602
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WHO NEEDS CNC?

Post by Trainman4602 » Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:01 am

I know that statement will stir it up on this board but as much as I think that the CNC technology is great I really feel the old school method is just as good. It may take a little longer to produce a part but the cost is far less. My Hardinge Chucker is 40 years old I paid $2600.00 for it plus the tooling It uses high speed or carbide tools.

This is just how I see things for Live Steam work.

I made this video last week using my cell phone the camera is good but the sound sucks. sorry for that.

Enjoy the video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAOnwMH44xI

ALLWAYS OPERATING MY TRAIN IN A SAFE MANNER USING AUTOMATIC AIR BRAKES

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tornitore45
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Re: WHO NEEDS CNC?

Post by tornitore45 » Sat Sep 15, 2018 6:17 am

If you are in the business to make money today, I doubt one could survive without CNC. It pays on production.
As a hobbyist making parts in single digit quantity I bet one spends more time with the CAD and getting the code right than making the part.
Not considering that if like the journey more than the destination, old fashion dial turning can be most rewarding.
Mauro Gaetano
in Austin TX

hoppercar
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Re: WHO NEEDS CNC?

Post by hoppercar » Sat Sep 15, 2018 6:46 am

I agree, I've been in the tool and due trade for 40 years...was trained and grew up on manual equipment, although I have been around cnc equipment and understand the "lingo" of whats going on, I have no interest in learning it. At the same time, I see young apprentices come into the shop, give them a job to chase threads on a manual lathe, and there lost. No idea how....only thing they understand is technology and pushing buttons

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PRR5406
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Re: WHO NEEDS CNC?

Post by PRR5406 » Sat Sep 15, 2018 6:54 am

Beside being exact to the plan, the obvious advantage of CNC is knocking out identical copies of a shape. Learning to use one is the learning curve for us "geezers". Being honest, most of us like to have our hands on the production, too.
There's a good argument and place for both techniques.
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rwmorris
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Re: WHO NEEDS CNC?

Post by rwmorris » Sat Sep 15, 2018 7:33 am

I have made countless parts on one of those machines. Quite possibly the coolest tool in the shop and I’d love to add one to my collection someday. They can take a bit of time to set up but after that it’s production time!

-Robert M.

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ALCOSTEAM
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Re: WHO NEEDS CNC?

Post by ALCOSTEAM » Sat Sep 15, 2018 8:45 am

Almost any larger shop they have one or two real machinists that set up the cnc machines and from there have far less skilled operators loading material and checking minor things but are otherwise just button pushers.

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NP317
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Re: WHO NEEDS CNC?

Post by NP317 » Sat Sep 15, 2018 10:28 am

That video was a good illustration of the manufacturing speed that a manual chucker can achieve.
Also considering Dave's skills!
Thanks for posting. Very educational.
~RN

John Hasler
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Re: WHO NEEDS CNC?

Post by John Hasler » Sat Sep 15, 2018 11:10 am

tornitore45 wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 6:17 am
If you are in the business to make money today, I doubt one could survive without CNC. It pays on production.
As a hobbyist making parts in single digit quantity I bet one spends more time with the CAD and getting the code right than making the part.
Not considering that if like the journey more than the destination, old fashion dial turning can be most rewarding.

I think it depends on the programmer, the part, the machine, and the software. Some guys are as good at coding as Trainman4602 is at machining, and there is software that can go from CAD drawings to G-code.

jcfx
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Re: WHO NEEDS CNC?

Post by jcfx » Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:38 pm

Nice video of manually producing parts, I'm curious about the threading gizmo you used, is that something that was commercially available
or is it something you made ?

It looks very handy for short runs ( or long ) for threading.

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Dick_Morris
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Re: WHO NEEDS CNC?

Post by Dick_Morris » Sat Sep 15, 2018 7:54 pm

threading gizmo
A releasing die holder for acorn dies.

Used with a bed turret. The turret feeds to a stop. As the threads continue to be cut cut after the stop is reached the holder for the die pulls out and releases by spinning freely. The lathe is then reversed to back the die off of the thread. You can also get them for button dies.

The shaft on the one in my photo is 5/8" diameter.

Downriver Tools who has some videos on Youtube on shop made bed turrets and accessories for small lathes (Atlas, etc.) sells drawings for a simple shop made version.

Not as slick as a geometric die head, but a whole lot cheaper and smaller.
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Trainman4602
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Re: WHO NEEDS CNC?

Post by Trainman4602 » Sat Sep 15, 2018 8:39 pm

Thanks for explaining it to them for me. I have several of the releasing acorn die holders. I have them for round dies also. In addition I have several geometric die chasers but you can't use them on the Hardinge Chucker with an automatic thread attachment. They screwed up on the design on that one. When you index the head to the next tool the die chaser interferes with the threading attachment. I have seen where operators remove the attachment but it is heavy and cumbersome to remove. I have been thinking of re keying it so it is raised up about a half inch. Better yet I'm think of getting another Chucker without the attachment.
ALLWAYS OPERATING MY TRAIN IN A SAFE MANNER USING AUTOMATIC AIR BRAKES

pete
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Re: WHO NEEDS CNC?

Post by pete » Sun Sep 16, 2018 10:32 pm

I'm not "stirred up" at all. But the thread titles question is much like threads on other forums that aren't metal working related. I can remember one on a woodworking forum about Who Needs Machine Tools and showing a short metal part for a woodworking jig made with a drill press and a file. Yes it can be done to a limited extent and accuracy level, I'm not about to give up my lathe and mill though. So I'm trying to be a bit logical with my reasoning. Sure for the correct and short part that chucker and turret work as well as a cnc would. The price wasn't that bad for what it will do either. I'm not argueing those points. How many not in business would need multiple parts of the general size and shape the lathe is designed to make enough times to justify a chucker and the turret? A good manual screw machine can even compete against cnc machines with someone who really knows how to set one up. But for your lathe it still has to be the correct short part that can be fully machined with the limited number of stations the turret of your chucker lathe has. And it wouldn't work for those with a small and already full shop, or for a whole lot of other part types.

It's also like threads or posts saying a cheap Chinese milling vise, cutting tools, etc is all any at the hobbiest level needs. Or a hobby level shop has no need for a surface grinder, or probably anything else if you searched thread titles and posts enough I guess. Threads like these make the automatic assumption that everyone has and works to the same requirements. While I don't have a cnc lathe or mill, they would save a whole lot of more specialised tooling and do so in the limited space I have available. I've got one part for a beam engine to build in the near future that will take at least 20-30 hrs to build the tooling to make my manual mill cut very large and accurate curves and maybe a couple of hundred bucks for materials to do it. Add that up multiple times for different jigs, fixtures and tooling over enough years and cnc starts making a lot of sense sometimes. I doubt cnc would end up cheaper, it's just more versitle with a higher buy in cost up front if buying new. Both methods have there place. But let's see you save your set up for the next time you need to make that part. :-) A few key strokes with cnc does that. I'm still impressed about how fast that chucker can machine parts though.

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