WHO NEEDS CNC?

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Trainman4602
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Re: WHO NEEDS CNC?

Post by Trainman4602 » Sun Sep 16, 2018 11:23 pm

I have hundreds of various shaped tools to cut what ever I want. I have a surface grinder with diamond wheels to make the tools. It take a few minuets to set up I write down the set up and sometimes video tape it. OK old School so was Baldwin , Lime and Alco then

I can turn a piece 12 inches long I do truck axles on that machine. I can do journal boxes to fit bearings to better then .0005 with the proper fixture. I have a two jaw chuck four jaw chuck and step collets to 6 inches. I can hold a truck wheel and machine the tread profile.
Like I have been saying I like CNC machining I just don't need the expense of it.

You mentioned I have a limited number of turret stations but I can set up more then one tool on the station.
FOR THE MONEY IT IS WELL WORTH IT.
Basically it come down to years (50) of machining experience running lathes.
ALLWAYS OPERATING MY TRAIN IN A SAFE MANNER USING AUTOMATIC AIR BRAKES

paralleler
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Re: WHO NEEDS CNC?

Post by paralleler » Mon Sep 17, 2018 11:40 am

Very impressive & many thanks Dave! By any chance do you have a post on how you learned your skills? Mentor? School of hard knocks? Junior High/High School Metal Shop? The shop at M.I.T.? Along of course with years-and-years of experience!

A bit off topic from CNC but I gotta' learn to walk before I can run. I am 63, retired, and worked in the computer science field. My father would have been right at home in your shop and I am trying to learn. I signed up for a Junior College course to learn equipment, safety, techniques, and sequence of operation. I was told by other students that the instructor I really wanted had recently retired. The new guy had forty years of shop experience but their teaching skills were poor and, in my opinion, I did not want to be around if there was an accident. A student texting on a cell phone while operating a lathe should be a no-no -- especially in an introductory class. "Natural selection" I guess.

A wonderful 88 year old gentleman from my club has taken me under his wing. He is enjoying his shop again as we work on small projects together. It's been wonderful and I'm going to learn as much as I can. I'm learning so much from him and try to capture some of it with video, stills, and notes. The second half of "Climax #38 -- Second Steam" is our working on its water pump together:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxsbOZ54Q88

Thanks again sir!
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tornitore45
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Re: WHO NEEDS CNC?

Post by tornitore45 » Mon Sep 17, 2018 12:29 pm

I signed up for a Junior College course
You are lucky to have found one at all.
Mauro Gaetano
in Austin TX

Mike Walsh
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Re: WHO NEEDS CNC?

Post by Mike Walsh » Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:06 pm

tornitore45 wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 12:29 pm
I signed up for a Junior College course
You are lucky to have found one at all.
There are still a few vocational/tech schools in the St. Louis area that offer machining courses. I have a friend who graduated from a machine shop program.

I personally got my college degree in machining in college. I double majored in machining while working on my Manufacturing Engineering Technology degree. So yes, while I may be technologically "forward" thinking, I am also capable of working with older machines -- In fact I did a summer internship at Rock Island Arsenal working on M119/M198 Howitzers running manual machines as well as NC machines (that is... Tape!). I work as a foundry engineer now and have a machine shop in my garage and try to make chips every now and then. This year has been tough with a lot of events taking precedence in my life, but it should return to some sense of normalcy in a month or so, and I can start making chips again.... Manually. But any chance I get to polish my skills on a CNC I will jump on.

Mike

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Trainman4602
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Re: WHO NEEDS CNC?

Post by Trainman4602 » Mon Sep 17, 2018 3:28 pm

I learned by on the job training. I worked at DeLaval Steam Turbine for years learned mostly there. I had a machine shop at home for 50 years. Started out as a Tool and Die apprentice. Hated it. To slow for me one off stuff. I'm a natural at producing multiple parts set ups and fixtures. I can turn it out before most people can think how to do it. I'm done. Chasing threads is my specialty.
ALLWAYS OPERATING MY TRAIN IN A SAFE MANNER USING AUTOMATIC AIR BRAKES

rkcarguy
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Re: WHO NEEDS CNC?

Post by rkcarguy » Tue Sep 18, 2018 6:37 pm

That's really cool! I ran a turret lathe off and on at my 2nd workplace, the thing was awesome for producing short runs of lathe parts(I made brass NPT nuts of various types and sizes for heat exchangers), and it was fun to run. On ours the drill carriage had stops to each position but we had to use a dial(s) on the carraige and remember which cut went how deep.

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Trainman4602
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Re: WHO NEEDS CNC?

Post by Trainman4602 » Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:10 pm

THAT IS HOW MINE IS i MAKE IT WITH A MARKING PEN i ALSO OF CLIPS WITH NUMBERS ON THEM IT REPEATS PERFECTLY EVERY TIME
ALLWAYS OPERATING MY TRAIN IN A SAFE MANNER USING AUTOMATIC AIR BRAKES

paralleler
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Re: WHO NEEDS CNC?

Post by paralleler » Wed Sep 19, 2018 11:43 am

tornitore45 wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 12:29 pm
I signed up for a Junior College course...
You are lucky to have found one at all.
Indeed. Even sadder is there is a second Junior College in the area that has the equipment but no instructor so it's been sitting idle (Diablo Valley College in Concord, CA, vs. Chabot College in Hayward, CA).

Meanwhile this December will mark the 50th anniversary of our first manned orbit of the moon.

"History makes us smart, heritage makes us proud."

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pat1027
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Re: WHO NEEDS CNC?

Post by pat1027 » Thu Sep 20, 2018 9:14 am

You don't need CNC, you might want it but you don't need it. We're modeling machines build before CNC was even a distant idea. I've often looked at photos from the locomotive builder in the early 1900's and remarked at the work they did with the tools they had. I've wondered if you could assemble a similar workforce today.

Harold_V
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Re: WHO NEEDS CNC?

Post by Harold_V » Thu Sep 20, 2018 3:13 pm

pat1027 wrote:
Thu Sep 20, 2018 9:14 am
You don't need CNC, you might want it but you don't need it. We're modeling machines build before CNC was even a distant idea. I've often looked at photos from the locomotive builder in the early 1900's and remarked at the work they did with the tools they had. I've wondered if you could assemble a similar workforce today.
No, you couldn't. I'm amongst the last of manually trained machinists. I can speak from personal experience, as well as personal observations, having worked in the machining trade, beginning in 1957, when all machines were manually operated (cam operated or hydraulic duplicating machines excepted).

It's simple, and machining can easily be compared to playing a musical instrument.

Anyone can make chips, or pluck, strike or blow a note, but it takes practice to make parts (reliably), just as it takes practice to play a musical instrument.

"Can't people learn to do that today?" you might ask.

Yes, they can, but they don't. Places of learning are rare, and that which is taught is not geared towards old technology--it's geared towards modern practice. Many of us were trained "on the job", but, today, the job rarely has manual machines---as in order to compete, modern technology is almost mandatory. Like the buggy whip, machinists of old are not much required these days, and are a dying breed, being replaced by those who know and understand modern technology.

World War II was fought with manual technology. That is highly unlikely to be repeated.

H
Wise people talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to say something.

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Trainman4602
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Re: WHO NEEDS CNC?

Post by Trainman4602 » Thu Sep 20, 2018 3:35 pm

Thanks for that Harold. I worked all day on the MANUAL lathe and came away with a great feeling of satisfaction. I just love running machines. Can the CNC boy grind a form tool by hand? They probably have a CNC machine to do it or use a indexable insert of the shape required or just simply program the machine to make the contour.

Sign painters are not unlike manual machinist. Years ago when you needed a sign made, the sign shop would paint it by hand letter a truck or what every was needed. In today's world it gets printed out and cut in vinyl and glued on.
ALLWAYS OPERATING MY TRAIN IN A SAFE MANNER USING AUTOMATIC AIR BRAKES

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Dick_Morris
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Re: WHO NEEDS CNC?

Post by Dick_Morris » Thu Sep 20, 2018 4:31 pm

One a bright light, at least for the amateur machinist, is the videos posted by the likes of Abom79, Keith Fenner, and Dave. I worked in machine shops for about a year after high school with the goal of becoming a machinist. That goal was crushed by a low draft number and the Air Force's needs for electronic technicians. I've continued to follow my interest in machine work for the last 50 years as an amateur. The many excellent Youtube videos now allow anyone willing to spend some time to expand their knowledge immensely. The opportunity to look over the shoulder and get the guidance of a journey machinist wasn't available as recently as ten years ago.

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