WHO NEEDS CNC?

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flyguy
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Re: WHO NEEDS CNC?

Post by flyguy » Wed Sep 26, 2018 5:34 pm

Dave,

I'm a huge fan of manual machining, seeing challenging parts made on an old school machine is really interesting. I’d love to see a video showing how you would attack making this handle from two pieces on the chucker.

James

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Trainman4602
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Re: WHO NEEDS CNC?

Post by Trainman4602 » Wed Sep 26, 2018 5:58 pm

The machine that is pictures in a Cincinnati Hydrotel It is hydraulically operated and follows a template that is on the left of the picture. I worked a DeLaval Steam Turbine. We made turbine blades 20 at a time using a similar machine. Started off with a solid block of stainless steel and milled it out.
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Rich_Carlstedt
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Re: WHO NEEDS CNC?

Post by Rich_Carlstedt » Wed Sep 26, 2018 6:55 pm

Yes, we had Hydrotels at Ford Aircraft when making J 47 Jet engines in the 1950's when I was there.
Also later in the 1980''s I worked in a Die shop that had a surplus machine from General Motors during the War years (WWII)
It was a Tracer Mill with a horizontal spindle / 4 jaw chuck and a Milling head that could move in two axis's with/without the spindle moving. Think of an old Cincinnati Horizontal mill geared to a dividing head doing worms /splines /profiles. it was all gear controlled and also could use a template on one axis making it a mechanical tracer . Can't remember the name , but heard it was made in Detroit. We replaced it with CNC for speed and to use carbide.
Rich

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Trainman4602
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Re: WHO NEEDS CNC?

Post by Trainman4602 » Wed Sep 26, 2018 7:34 pm

When I first started in the hobby and just about thee time I started offering casting and products to the live steam industry I befriended a man named Ben Nixon. He sold me the patterns for the now famous Mercer Bettendorf trucks I sold literally 1000edns of them. world wide.

He showed me his method for producing a truck axle on a nine inch Southbend lathe. He removed the screw that held the cross slide nut much like you would if you were going to cut a taper using the taper attachment. In place of the taper attachment he had a template in the shape of the tapered axle, the section between the wheels .He had two heavy tension springs pulling on the cross slide with a stylus against the template. The stylus followed the template and formed the taper.
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Harold_V
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Re: WHO NEEDS CNC?

Post by Harold_V » Thu Sep 27, 2018 3:22 am

The last job I held, before starting my commercial shop, was with United Precision Manufacturing, in Salt Lake City (they recently closed their doors).

One of the projects I ran was a large number of tensile specimens, and they were made the same way.
Tensile specimen.JPG
They were turned from 1/8"diameter tungsten, and had a 1" radius at each end of the turn. Turned diameter was .100". Tolerance was tight, although I don't recall what it was. The finish required polishing. Turn marks were not acceptable.
I modified the little Clausing lathe they had by adding springs to the compound, using the cross feed to feed the tool. A roller bearing became the stylus. I also made a live center that accepted the 1/8" material, secured by a set screw.

The 1" radius on each end would have been impossible to produce without a tracer, and they didn't have any NC equipment at that point in time. Turned out great, and made the job easy, although turning tungsten is pretty tough on carbide. This would have been a good candidate for grinding, but the shop didn't have a cylindrical grinder, nor a centerless. It could have been ground with either one, although it would have been easiest using a centerless, plunge feeding.

H
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Trainman4602
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Re: WHO NEEDS CNC?

Post by Trainman4602 » Thu Sep 27, 2018 5:35 pm

Hi Harold
I made plenty of test bars. This process should be of interest to the boiler makers on here. The process takes a piece of the steel sheet that is going to be used in a citified situation,such as a boiler. We would make them with a 3/4-10 thd on each end and the center would be machined to a 1/2 in tenths. The bars were marked with a special punch that placed two marks exactly 2 inches apart.

It was then placed in a machine called a tensile testing machine made by Tinnitus Olsen. They would then pull it apart making note of how much tension could be placed on it before it broke apart. The bar had to meet the specifications of the part being made with the remainder of the sheet, and documented.
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Trainman4602
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Re: WHO NEEDS CNC?

Post by Trainman4602 » Thu Sep 27, 2018 5:42 pm

This picture was posted on my Facebook page. As must know I worked for DeLaval Steam Turbine Company here in Trenton. This is picture of Dick Steinour circa 1950 the master of the chuck turret. I worked night shift with him for 10 years. Truly a master of the MANUAL chuck turret.
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SteveM
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Re: WHO NEEDS CNC?

Post by SteveM » Thu Sep 27, 2018 9:01 pm

I think that toolpost weighs more than my lathe!

Steve

Harold_V
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Re: WHO NEEDS CNC?

Post by Harold_V » Fri Sep 28, 2018 3:13 am

While I don't have any pictures, I witnessed a part being made on a lathe that would normally defy logic. It was a tube, with two diameters. The man who made the parts was likely the finest lathe man I ever encountered, and I knew a lot of lathe men.

To create the smaller diameter in the tube, which had a nice radius between the two diameters, Juan (that was his name) made a mandrel on which the part would be rolled. He then, on the cross slide, mounted a three jaw chuck equipped with soft jaws, each jaw with a wide roller bearing. This chuck was dialed true with the headstock. The part would be held in the headstock chuck, in soft jaws, with the mandrel inserted. He would then run the carriage up to the chucked piece of tubing to the desired depth, then start the headstock (relatively slow speed). By tightening the chuck mounted on the cross slide, the rollers would collapse the tubing until it was stopped by the mandrel. A clever, yet very simple, setup.

One is pretty much unlimited with what can be accomplished with manual machines. Having a good imagination goes a long ways towards achieving success.

Now if I could just master the art of engraving without a pantograph or a CNC! :lol:

H
Wise people talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to say something.

Asteamhead
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Re: WHO NEEDS CNC?

Post by Asteamhead » Wed Oct 03, 2018 2:04 pm

Hello modelers (who are still using obsolete technics now and then),
Talking to several life steamers, I detected a simple method to fix hexagon material in a standard 4 - chuck instead of using a 3 - chuck seems to be unknown by many of them?
Shift the hexagon material into the chuck, turn it a bit cw and ccw during fastening then it will be centered and run true precisely :idea: .

For I'm using a precise and rigid 4 - chuck on the turntable all the time, even hexagon nuts can be centered to be milled or else.
Thus I decided to use a 4 - chuck on my lathe exclusively, too and don't bother with changing chucks any more in case I turn quad or hex material :D !

Asteamhead
Attachments
Hex material in a 4 ckuck, close sight_1486red.jpg
Hexagon material centered and fixed in the 4-chuck of my turntable
Hexagon material in a 4-Chuck_1477red.jpg
How to position hex material in a 4-chuck
Hexagon matreial in a 4-chuck, 90 degree sight_1478red.jpg
Dito., sight when turned the chuck by 90 °
Hex material in the lathe with a 4-chuck_1481red.jpg
Finishing a long hex bolt, centered and fixed in a 4-chuck

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Trainman4602
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Re: WHO NEEDS CNC?

Post by Trainman4602 » Wed Oct 03, 2018 2:15 pm

Hello modelers (who are still using obsolete technics now and then),

Sorry I do not agree that old school is obsolete.
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Builder01
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Re: WHO NEEDS CNC?

Post by Builder01 » Wed Oct 03, 2018 7:16 pm

That method of chucking hex stock only works with a "Universal" 4 jaw chuck. An independent 4 jaw chick will require dialing in the hex stock. The time to change the chuck to a universal 3 jaw chuck will probably be quicker than dialing in. You use whatever tool you have. 4 jaw universal chucks are not the typical chuck most folks have.

David

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